Paul J DeBartolomeo

I,ll be there selling T-shirts, hats patches etc. in my booth at the flea market, stop by. Unfortunately the forecast is for rain on saturday.

Ive been out of the mix on this topic for a while but just a question for Cogs. You mentioned the P.G. guys again having paid staff for the day tour only. Wasnt this in effect in the big 5 at one point at the onset of career personel? I hate to continue to be a doubting Thomas but it just seems like somewhat of a vicious cycle. They had drivers just for the day tours initialy, then it went to a driver 24hrs, then 2 men on at all times. Why do you think this happened, call volume, volunteer turnout? As I recall the staffing was continually incresed in these dept to provide better coverage due to a void in volunteer turnout. What is going to be different now? Just being the devils advocate here and looking at this from a different perspective. Paul

O.K. EX-2114 Lets have it...3,4,5,6,7,8 No one ever indicated that staffing would be an issue that I saw on this thread, and the make-up of the dept(paid,volunteer,or otherwise) was not mentioned much either. Guys were just stressing the fact that to be considered a fully functioning ladder company, as was asked in the original post, trained personel is the key component. I personally find the discussion rather insightful, and I cant figure out why people are getting upset with some of the dialog. Perhaps you can expand on some of the other requirements needed since we have apparently beat #'s 1 & 2 to death. Paul D.

The gentleman asked what was required to be a fully functioning ladder company. I think the brothers are expressing the opinion that it takes a lot more than an apparatus and tools to accomplish this. Is that such a bad thing? I think alot of stimulating and thought provoking discussion has insued.

I tend to agree with Sqd 47 mainly because we were exposed to the same system and saw it in action. I also see some of ALS' concerns, but I think they were addressed by Sqd. In order for anything to work on the fireground all players have to be on the same page. We had a dedicated truck company with riding assignments, and based on our manpower at time of dispatch was how they were filled. If we has 3 guys we would ride with a chauffer, officer (Irons) & Jumpseat (Canman). The remaining positions would be filled if manpower was in quaters. If we had home responders they could fill the remaining positions upon there arrival on scene and carry out the associated tasks. Our main priority was to staff an inside team first and foremost to carry out forcible entry & primary searches. The main downside was when we would go mutual aid and their cheifs would view us as simply extra manpower and would use us ineffectively. In these situations our critical functions were not getting completed. All players have to be on the same page, and this is accomplished through clear strategy and tactics that stretch accross district lines, and consistent multi unit drills so every understands the functions and capabilities of each unit at a fire.

Staten Island appealed the hell out of Barb, and the city reversed only one of their appeals. Seems like they want this system and thats that.

On the job, 10-4 K ditto for the hydra ram aka $1100 door chock, I'll take the Irons any day

Hydra Ram & Closet hook for an OMD? Is that it? What if the door has an angle iron, or the hydra ram malfunctions, & most ceilings in an M.D. may be out of the reach of a closet hook.

The tools mentioned thus far are a good start. I could mail you our tool list if you would like. Manpower is also a key ingredient. To be considered a fully functioning ladder company you need to develop and adhere to tactics that are based on sound operational guidelines specific to your function at fires & tailored to your dept. & response area. In addition to that you will need to train your personel in ladder company operations. As sqd 47 pointed out, their rig is laid out according to riding positions, and there riding positions adhere to there individual sog's for that position, and there sog's are based on tactics specific for ladder company operations. Their training focuses mainly on the functions of a ladder company at structural fires. Forcible entry, V.E.S. Searching, and laddering to name a few. Simply having an aerial devise outfitted with tools does not constitute a ladder company. It is a great start but there is quite a bit involved. PM me if you would like some more information & good luck. Paul

Danger, Chances are that the roof on that bldg is Q decking, based on the size of the bldg and the appearence of relatively new construction. If that is in fact the case it would be best to focus on the natural opening. You can cut Q decking with the roof saw but it is a bit of a project. If the roof is wood you would have to clear as much of the stone or gravel away from the area you are going to cut. The stones in the picture look a little large so they might pose a problem. Many times the roof may be covered with smaller gravel that looks like item 4. Most times you can operate the saw through that without too much trouble. Just keep others clear of your cutting area because the stones are going to be flying, and can cause serious injury to others on the roof.

Amen to JFlynn, So many guys are critical of things on this site yet they have nothing to back it up. I have a question. How many of the members that have posted on this thread have actually operated the saw at a working fire. How many of you have cut a gate or a lock when the pressure was on. I have worked with Captain Morris in the firehouse where he provided me with the best training I have ever recieved, & never once was safety an issue. You can site all the regulations and standards you want but lets be realistic this is an inherently dangerous job. It guys like Captain Morris that have dedicated the majority of his life to make firefighters safer through realistic training. Yet another example of people nit picking a snapshot, perhaps you should enroll in his next class maybe then you could see the big picture. Paul DeBartolomeo L-28

Where I work it would be dispatched as sparks or smoke from an outlet & would recieve a structural assignment of 2 engines, 2 ladders, & a B.C. More than likely it would result in a signal 10-40 code 2 (electrical emergency) The tool assignment for the inside team would be the standard compliment, as we always shut the breaker upon entering the dwelling we would treat this as a class A fire and would operate with the can if needed. Good Discussion Stay Safe, Paul

Lad45der very well said, I assume most of the guys that are nit picking this operation could of done a better job themselves. Yeah right! These guys are as squared away as they come. I personally know some of these members and I know training is paramount to them, and they run an aggressive shop. We could all learn from these dedicated members, yet we choose to point out the nonsense of waist straps, gloves, and the portable ladder. As was previously stated, if you cant throw a 24 by yourself join the gym.

Great shots, and great tactics being employed by a well trained ladder company. Hey photo were the Hayes boys on scene for this one? I work with their Dad. Why do guys have point out only the negative aspects of these photos. Gloves and pack straps, based on what I see in these pictures and what I know about this deptartment Im sure the brothers use proper PPE. Lets try and focus on the positive of great photos and sound tactics instead of nit picking every last detail. Paul D.

Cogs, I have openly debated you on this subject several times with the utmost respect and considered your post to be well thought out and in many cases valid. That being said, your latest post, suggesting that men be laid off has crossed the line in my opinion. While you are entitled to your opinion, I personally think it Stinks. I know you say it was said in a toungue & cheek manner, but talking about a brothers livelyhood is out of line. Paul D.

Joe Didnt the membership of Belltown vote to have the paid personnel removed and go strictly volly?

Sqd 47 As far as the apparatus goes I quess the city of New York should put an extra engine & truck in the house with us just in case we need them. When we are out if a second incident comes in another company handles it. Belltowns response area is approximately 1 square mile yet they have 2 engines, a tower ladder and a heavy rescue. This is just like the situation in Long Island, there is no regionalization. I think apparatus should be spaced out geographically based on need. Do you really need 5 rescue rigs in Stamford. How many are in the city of New York? Is it because these rigs are needed or is it because you all want what everyone else has. I think combining manpower and providing specific resources, that are needed, is the answer. For example, Belltown and Springdale could combine manpower and man the Tower Ladder to serve as the ladder company for engines 6, 7, 8, & 41. In my opinion better use of manning and resources. U Take Care Now Paul.

Sqd 47, If the comittment has always been to serving the citizens how does reducing your responses in half do that? This move was done following the removal of paid personel. IMO this is a reduction of service by 50% and an admission that the call volume cannot be handled by a strictly volunteer force. As far as the comment on apparatus I think we can agree that there is a tremendous amount of overkill & needless redundancy throughout the system especially now with the new system in place. I think at last count the city of Stamford had a total of 25 engines, 9 ladders, & 5 rescue rigs, it like a small bourough I guess.

372SFRD Great photos brother, thanks for the accurate info from someone on-scene to clear up all the questions. Great learning tool to stimulate some constructive conversation. Paul

Future Fireman, While I applaud your enthusism and interest in the fire service, I can tell by some of your comments you are just that, a future fireman. There are quite a few people on this site that are actual firemen and have a great deal of experience. Its ok to voice an opinion, but what are you basing it on? Unless you have actually done some of the stuff you speak about its best to take a step back and listen. Ive been in this business along time, yet I continue to learn from the info that is passed along on this site. Just some friendly advise, please dont take it the wrong way. Paul DeBartolomeo FDNY L-28

Pudge, are you sure that first line at the front door is a 2 1/2" line, take another look. Only one guy operating the nozzle, not very easy with 2 1/2, also look at the blue line on the 2 side of the bldg and note the size differences. I could be wrong but that white line looks like its alot smaller.

After watching the 2 videos and looking at all the pics, and knowing what we know about a gas or propane situation, was this fire handled properly from a tactics stand point. This is a great learning tool that can make us all better at what we do, it is in no way an opportunity to bash others. In my opinion they did okay. The first line went in the front door where it belonged and was probably knocking down a good amount of fire. Although it looks like there was a great deal of fire on that first floor, it was vented already, which makes life considerably easier. I think they could have given the offensive attack a little more time, 2 1/2 maybe with that volume of fire. Possible V.E.S. of upper floors with the aerial or portable ladders, those rooms have to be searched regardless of what we hear on the fireground and the 2nd floor was not that bad early on. Once it went defensive the fire did what its supposed to do. The lines pushed it through the house and it burned up through the roof. In no way am I bashing these depts, just voicing my opinion based on my experience. Lets keep this a positive and educational post.

Yeah the pictures are great! How about the tactics, can we generate some meaningful discussion on the operation? Was this a good approach, bad approach or what. Lets all learn from the brothers contributions, isnt that what this site is all about?

Sqd 47 & Cogs Can we use the Squad experiment some 10-12 years ago as a barometer on how guys step up to the plate and cover shifts on a consistent basis or is that too far in the past. To my recollection there were alot more active and qualified members then, and you were drawing from 5 depts, thats 1 man from each dept per shift for all the mathmaticians on this post. This lasted about 2 weeks before it folded due to lack of manpower, so whats different now. Less of a pool to draw from, yet this seems viable? Not to be a pessimist but I just dont see it. This is not Va. or Md. its Fairfield County CT. and its very expensive to live here. How do you expect a person to devote 1-2 days a week to a volunteer service and still afford to live there. A more realistic approach would be to combine the remaining volunteer members and augment the SFRD with needed resources, such as a volunteer truck or rescue company that responds to all boxes North of the border.

Cogs, As far as I can tell the city has taken steps to insure sound fire coverage by moving 2 career units into the North country. I know this is probably viewed as a negative step by many people, but I think it is done with the interest of public safety as the primary concern. Wether or not it will be permanent is anyones quess, but hopefully all parties can co-exist in a peaceful and professional manner. As far as our other debate goes you present some decent ideas, wether or not they are realistic is another story, but thats just my opinion. Only time will tell how this situation will work itself out, but rest assurd it will be worked out one way or another. Lets all just hope cooler heads prevail. Peace Paul D.