FD828

1. No. Not in the begining anyway. I feel that before we ride together, we must train together first. So just being certified is not enough in my book. If after we train together then I don't have a problem with volunteers riding at other stations provided they do not take a spot away from a career ff. And if they ride, it is for a whole shift (day, night or both) and they will be responsible for all the same things the career ff's are, including equipemt checks and inventory, station details, cooking, cleaning, watches etc... AND they must wear a uniform. Whatever it is, they cannot be the guy in jeans or shorts and flip flops. They have to be part of the crew. 2. No, I don't think a volunteer should replace a career vacancy. And about saving tax payer money, the only plan that doesn't increase or hire new ff's is chief Brown's plan whether you like it or not. You can spin it any way you want, saying that there will be no cost to tax payers for the mayor's plan, but the bottom line is that they are hiring 50+ ff's and a chief. So just because they are changing the mill rates to make it seem as if there is no cost doesn't mean it is so. 3. Yes. All ff's and officers should be trained the same and to the same level. 4. No. I feel that volunteer officers should be in command of their volunteer crews. If a volunteer officer needs a career crew to do something, they can speak with the career officer of that crew. Of course the IC is in charge of all crews paid or volunteer. 5. Yes. I have taken several courses that were taught by both career and volunteer instructors. 6. Not exactly sure, I do feel that if we were all working together that all parties would have input in all aspects and the final decision would rest upon the shoulders of the chief of the department. 7. I am willing to do what is asked of me by my officers, fellow ff's, department, and union. This is my career first and foremost. I have to be able to provide for my family. I cannot make department changes, I can put my input in to my union officials as I have been doing. The fact remains that we could agree on everything, but the mayor is going to do what he wants regardless of what anyone else has to say about it. Professional studies, tons and tons of experience in the fire service, and he is listening to who? An X baseball manager/analyst who has ZERO public safety experience? A lawyer? A past volunteer chief that live in Milford? We could talk till we are blue in the face and it won't matter. This administration is set on one thing and one thing only, and it is NOT making 1 department.

So basically everything will continue the way it is now. What a joke this whole thing is. Cogs, you talk about smoke and mirrors? Well this is the biggest smoke and mirror job that they are trying to force upon the public at large.

I know you were at the same meeting I was when Chief Brown made his proposal for the future fire service to the BOR where he talked about the volunteer firefighters riding out with the career staff, training with the career staff and when specifiacally asked if the volunteers would be able to ride in ALL of the SFRD stations the answer was NOT no. I believe he also talked about incentives for the volunteers in the form of points on the entrance exam, 5 for being an ACTIVE member and 5 for residing in town. So Yes, you are mistaken. A very big step forward was taken by the SFRD Chief to work with the volunteers (and save tax payer money) and as of yet except for GFD, the other "big 4" have yet to be willing to take that same step forward to even meet somewhere in the middle. Everyone agrees that there should be 1 department and 1 chief, but because of the "fear of the VFD's bringing law suits" we are going to have 2, I mean 3 departments. There will never be 1 department if the mayor forms his plan even though he has stated that would be the optimal goal. You have to start somewhere. Form one department and start somewhere. Try things one way, then try them another. Keep what works and get rid of what doesn't. Nothing has to be permanent. It can be a work in progress under 1 chief! Again the big sticking point... who is in charge.

Such a very good point. The other VFD's may be responding but with what man power? What level of fire or medical training do they posess? Is it any better if a VFD responds but has little or no qualified members? I guess as long as the BRT shows up everything is fine?

Just because Glenbrook only has as you say a 12% response record, doesn't mean that having SFRD in all the VFD's wouldn't work the same or BETTER. That is of course the VFD's refused to work with the career staff and that wouldn't happen would it?

L-25/Div 3 (E-74 before 1956)

Yes everyone hates going on the BS runs both EMS and Fire alike. However there is a term that we all need to remember. Job security. 16Fire5 is 100% correct about the safety aspect as well. Safety on the roadways, safety in numbers. Even to have extra hands for lifting and carrying equipment as well. Would we all like just going on the "real" calls? Sure, but that is not reality. BS calls are part of the job.

Except the FF's can perform life saving interventions whether they "want" to be there or not.

Agreed, the FD's should only be sent to priority calls (Chest pain, SOB, unconsc) or when a mutual aid agency has to be called. However the mayor from Endicott wants to stop ALL FD response to medical calls. How is that worthy of praise? Those residents will be S.O.L. waiting 20 mins for someone to respond. Hope the public gets involved...... or moves somewhere else.......

Not for nothing, but the number of fires are going down, the number of EMS runs are steadily on the rise. Maybe the FD doesn't need to respond to all EMS calls (maybe only priority ones), but as a 1st responder that is what they are there for. Not to mention without doing any EMS calls, don't you think there is a strong argument to reduce manpower/equipment for the probably 50% decrease in responses? The fire departments NEED EMS like it or not.

Or have any of the other VFD's come forth with any of the info that was requested of them??? Don't think so......

If the VFD chiefs went with the chiefs of SFRD (mainly Chief Brown) and together they went to the Mayor and the BOR saying together that this plan is wrong it would be a start. Us lowly firefighters have no say in what happens. We could all hold hands and it still wouldn't change a thing.

I wish you would stand up and speak the truth, that what pavia is doing is a bunch of bullsh**. You have said it in past posts that you don't agree with his plan. You don't believe that the mayor's plan is the best one, yet you keep on defending it. You keep saying that you want what is best, yet you hide behind the legalities of the charter. You want to have cooperation of both sides? Then stand up, rally your troops and admit this joke of an administration is taking the fire service in Stamford backwards. Just because we may have some differences in opinion about how things should work, doesn't mean that the SFRD and VFD's couldn't stand together to rebut this ridiculous mayor and his so called plan. Perhaps that would be the step we all need to get together and work it out like men. Olive branches for everyone!. Putting all pride and egos aside and doing what is best for the citizens we swore we would serve and protect.

So because the last adminstration peed in your Cheerios, it's ok for the new admistration to act in this fashion? Or is it really crap, but because the VFD's seem to be favored it makes it ok?

At least you're honest

Other then Cogs' plan, have the volunteers put forth a plan????

So much is said of what the SFRD will be willing to bend on or negotiate with and it is because they won't that there is an impass. What, if anything, are the VFD's willing to bend on? Doesn't seem like they are willing to bend any more then the SFRD is supposedly not bending. As far as not fighting Malloy and his administration in 2008, perhaps it is because, all your legalities aside, it was the best thing for the safety of the career ff's and the public? A dismal response by the volunteers, 2 career ff's on a machine? Is the public being better served now? There is still a terrible response for 4/5 of the VFD's. but for every call there is a full and garaunteed response.

I have to correct you on one main point. It is NOT the SFRD that has ignored the charter or violated the charter. It is the CITY. The CITY is the one that decided that the SFRD was going to do what they did. Stop putting the blame on the department and the hard working people in it. You want to blame someone, blame the right people. Malloy and his administration or the current joke of one now. We didn't ask for this mess no more then you did.

If only the union had a say in what happened as well. The only thing the union can do is to deal with whatever comes down the pike. The city is calling the shots in this chess match and they could care less what anyone has to say on the matter.

From your point of view what points are open for negotiation or are common ground? From my point of view,(and my opinion means absolutely nothing) everything has to start with standardized training which we both have stated. Across the board city wide standards for the ranks of all officer positions. I feel that if a VFD has a full crew (Officer, Driver and 2 ff's with the standardized training) then they should call into dispatch and be put "in service" and added to the run cards to come up recommended for whatever or wherever the call is. When they no longer have this full crew, they call in and are taken out of service. If there are volunteers that want to ride out on the career machine then so be it. The IC is the IC. If the VFD chief responds then he/she will be the IC. It could be a responding captain (they go in POV's, yes?) until a higher ranking officer arrives. But this again is all dependent on training. I am not sure what else you are looking for me to say. I believe that have laid out some of my ideas of how this could work. As far as the volunteers coming and going, maybe the only thing that would help is if there were sleeping quarters somewhere that the coming and going would not be disruptive (unless 612 outlaws all sleeping) Perhaps if the VFD's actually wanted SFRD it could happen. But I think it is a fact that they don't for all the reasons and fears mentioned in the hundreds and hundreds of posts. I think we all have some good ideas and even want the same end goal. Problem is that we have no control or say for that matter. The powers that be have an agenda and I don't think there is anything that we can do about it. So the union will do what it feels is best for its' members, the VFD's will do what they feel is best for them. Hopefully the public will not suffer, because it sure seems like that's where it is headed.

I can only blame the Glenbrook volunteers themselves for their lack of response to calls in their district. Speaking with some of those members, not one of them has expressed the belief that they don't respond because of the big bad SFRD. The SFRD has not done anything to discourage the GFD members from responding or riding out with E-6. It is up to the individual member to decide whether or not to respond. Just because GFD doesn't respond, why does that automatically mean the rest of the departments will follow suit? You know the personnel you have. Would they stop coming out for calls, stop training, just because SFRD had an engine in Belltown? Another thing that must happen is that the fire station wherever it is, must not be "our house" and you are just guests here. I know I know, the building belongs to the volunteers. For it to truly work, it has to be everyones house that everyone can take pride in. Just as a side note, SFRD personnel go where they are ordered to go. I am pretty sure that the white shirts get their marching orders from 888. So it is not like the white shirts unilaterally decided to place engines in the volunteer districts. And in 2 of them they were welcomed (well E-7 was welcome until the present 511 came to be - which is ironic because that department needs the help the most)

First, where/what are these demands of SFRD that you speak so much of? Do they apply to Glenbrook FD as well and if so how were they effected by them? Who is making these take it or leave it demands? I believe in standardized training from the newest ff to the highest officers. But how can anything even get started with that if the departments will not hand over or show what training their members have or better yet don't have? On an incident all personnel must follow ICS or the chain of command. Career ff's take orders from their officer, that officer takes orders from the IC and so on and so on. So if a volunteer lets say engine, responds to the same incident, with career crews operating, the officer on the volunteer engine will be in charge of his/her crew and will take orders from the same IC. So on a scene I do not see where issues will arise.(Provided we are dealing with individuals whose training is known and adequate for the position) Volunteer officers will not be giving orders to career crews and vice versa. Except of course the IC. But training has to be the key. I don't really care that someone is voted in a chief, Captain or Lt, I know how that system works coming from it myself. The problem lies with the unknown. Who is trained and to what level. Problems arise in the stations. It has happened in the past (to me personally) were a volunteer officer gets a bug up their butt and starts to pull rank with the career staff. Now what should be done is have that officer speak with the career officer and handle things like gentlemen, however those that have been around have seen what happens. Bays being blocked, police being called, grievances being filed and so on and so on. Nobody trusts the other. Like it or not the career staff is unionized and as such is afforded certain protections/rights that must be followed. But I also believe that there should be a fully staffed crew in each VFD to respond immediately for all calls 24/7. I feel it is up to the individual volunteer ff to decide what is best for his/her community and whether or not they can/will work with that system. I don't think the VFD's will or should be a secondary role. If they have a fully trained crew to staff a machine great, just a couple guys that want to ride on the career rig, great. Like I said above if we all train together....... IMO, if we were all trained the same and trained together, I think there would be more trust and a better environment for all involved. Letters to the BOR does make it hard to extend the old olive branch though.

How can you honestly believe this? Aside from the Belltown chief, look at what the other department heads have done publicly towards SFRD! It amazes me that your department wants to be associated with the other 2. (TOR, Springdale). You think that if anything is suggested by SFRD other then what they want, that there will be a compromise? They publicly attacked the firefighters and their livelihoods, and we are supposed to work side by side with them? Give me a break. It has to be a two way street.

Not sure about volunteer responding to the scene without a rig, but I do believe that it is current policy that the certified volunteers can ride out on SFRD rigs.

I do believe that the VFD chief is in charge of all incidents in their districts unless they relinquish command are they not? And seeings how the VFD's refuse to give any training and health records can you honestly blame the city department for not wanting to take orders from someone who may not be qualified to hold a position of authority?