robert benz

we could what if this to death and yes if you have the manpower to leave a member at the rig at all times great more power to you I know of some depts that require a member to stay with the hydrant once it is hooked. Did a nut get in the aerial in Mt Vernon and move it, yes, but if you look at the hundreds of thousands of calls the fire service goes on I am sure stealing an apparatus is too small to calculate, and this whole business we are in is about calculated decisions. Again do what your dept tells you to. Another question comes to mind and this is more of a volly question, are your mpo's interior ff's if not they werent going in anyway so the point is mute. In my dept we send 4 engines w/ 3 or 4 guys on each rig, "most of the time" all lines come off first due so we can free up the 3rd mpo to help where needed and the 4th mpo is part of the fast

7 engines on the scene, your engine didnt get called to the scene for pumping but needed extra manpower, still going to babysit the apparatus, same thing with a truck, no way to setup due to wires or later arrival and being boxed out, lots of ground ladders on all the closer trucks, still want the chauffeur to stay with the apparatus? always and nevers have a very limited place in the fire service.

I will play devils advocate for a second here, engine 99 mpo, officer, nozzle, hydrant so you lost the hydrant man to the hydrant ok I am an officer in a career dept i went to fdny for a month to learn how to be a supervisior what is my position on this hose line oh yea back up a lot of good i do there with all my training who is supervising now?? happens everyday and i shake my head as to how we do it it gets done i want that hydrant man backing up the nozzleman as fast as possible. can we or should we call for more help to throw ladders yes or maybe we need them for the 10 other little boxes on the sop form that have not been addressed yet. it is a different fire scene than when I started many years ago.

several problems I see, and as mentioned before manpower is at the top of it, if you only have enough to fill in the operations part of the initial response, (f/e, search, hose placement, water supply) then the outside laddering will not get done as is being pushed for here. Is it needed, situations will dictate, fire in the attic, I dont see a big need for ladders below the fire floor, I do need a crew to the roof to vent, basement fire and contained to the basement so far do I need to throw up ladders to every window? I know FF's are searching above, and yes FAST can throw ladders, but... Also and here is a sore point, SOP/SOG gets a lot of mention, is it realistic in the wording or is it to cover the depts a**? It is real nice to say do this, this and this, but do you have the manpower on scene to do it? Or is this why we are seeing more and more multi dept responses to a room and contents fire that we (no dept in particular) handled ourselves just a few years ago. Ladder skills are one of the least taught skills in the fire service, from selection of, placement (how many times can we move it) to raising, footing, untying the halyard, tying the halyard etc. It is a great sight when a ladder co throws up a ladder one time, no wasted motion It is like watching a monkey have sex with a football the rest of the time

do they get a share of the 2% $$$$$$$ ?????

you of lost me with the home rule statement what do you mean?

couple of things to remember, manpower dictates if you can leave a firefighter with the truck on the turntable as an sop, most depts dont have that luxuary all the time, unless the aerial is going to be used. as for "remote control" from the bucket, yes it is a great way to use manpower, but as seen in a few safety video's you can get tunnel vision and get yourself into a bad spot either with wires, fire or the collapse zone, that is why the controls on the turntable OVERRIDE the bucket controls which is why a member should be positioned there to act as another set of eyes. As for remote controls on aerials, they are out there, we called them creepers a small joystick at the tip that a member once up there could fine tune the aerial placement. It goes against normal safety precautions on an aerial, you should never extend or retract while a member is on the ladder due to the chance of a severe injury to a foot or hand which just happened recently during a fire prevention demo, if i remember correctly a firefighter lost part of his foot when it got wedged between the rungs while he was climbing and the aerial was being extended.

the way i see it D&D is worried about losing $$$$. I for one will now stop going to D&D because it caved to the liberals. I am only one person but I feel better about this already.

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thank you

this SHOULD raise a few eyebrows. What is your dept's policy to be an interior firefighter??? And what is your State, County policy??? (and I wish the answer was as simple as FF-1) I will get into that discussion later if it doesnt come up.

not starting a paid vs volly deal / career depts only have interior ff's and the # of FF'S is readily available

well i only read a little and the worst staion missed 94% of its calls while the best missed 39% of its calls THINK OF ALL THE FUEL THEY SAVED THE TAXPAYERS!!!!!!

ok how about a different spin on this. the public is pretty much clueless when it comes to it emergency protection, fd, pd or ems but how many of "US" do know that our dept cannot deliver the service. I mean a true hard look in the mirror, and say "my dept will respond with the required number of emergency personnel in a timley manor, any time the alarm goes off . Is this the new age where we can say we are a fire dept, until a true emergency call comes in and then proudly exclaim that it took 7 depts mutual aid to put out our fire. I understand tankers and FAST and "the big one" for mutual aid. but are some depts running a complete shell game when it comes to public safety? And since the public is clueless, then "the fire service" is running this shell game and should be the ones have the balls to say "we cant provide the service we used to" due to no fault of our own, and what can we do to fix this. The fire service is very reactive as opposed to proactive. I hope it doesnt take a tragic loss of life civilian or firefighter to wake up the powers that control our safety. Look back in that mirror and ask when I am at work or just not home , is my family protected 24 /7 or is your family emergency plan to get the kids out and call the insurance company? What the public expects is nothing less than the claims made by the patch on your apparatus. XYZ FIRE DEPT

I agree it is an option, so are a million other ways, but you talk about less damage you have to put a saw thru a door to make this work that is enough damage to replace the door in my world, as for using the framing square as a door chock, will that work sure, so will a refrigerator but i am not carring that into the building either. Thats what chocks are for and there are plenty of options with those too. I am glad firefighters keep trying to come up with better ways, but if you have to use a saw you are past the passive entry part of life, I just dont see it as "a GREAT new way" truck 1 on scene officer has tic, lite, irons jump seat has can, hook, lite driver shows up with saw, lite and oh sh*t i forgot the damn square i will be right

It works but is it reality? how many guys are going to carry a framing square around the building with them, if i have the saw running anyway why not cut a hole big enough to open the door the second you start cutting the door is garbage, and if you are worried about fire well what are you going to do when you open the door with the square?

very good response but they are not all gone, at least not in westchester

ok so now what happens if a student fails out of ff-1 can this person still be considered an interior firefighter by his or hers dept? and if so why? And why would a dept take on the liability

by ny state law do you need ff-1 (or equiv) to be an interior firefighter?

does anyone on here think that it is only a problem in Charleston?

Small trash fire or leaf pile fire, not near a structure, jump out, pull the reel and pull out only what you need (you don't have to pull out an entire length or pack to flow), extinguish the fire, retract reel, go home. It's such a convience. No time wasted walking hose out, packing, etc. A great utility line, especially for a busy department. what dept is so busy that they cant stretch a 1 3/4?? does a booster line work for small stuff ? sure but so does the elephant gun as you put it and i reinforce the importance of how to use the fog nozzle, how to check it, (right to fight) if thats what i want, how to deply one or two lengths of hose properly, this may be one of those times you may want to use a little fog pattern, on a pile of leaves etc. I was taught how and when to use a booster hose, but I also heard of them used when more GPM's were called for, and a chief is never happy when you have to call for another engine because you tried to save your water and failed to complete your objective. I am GLAD not to have to a choice as to use them anymore. And as far as easier to pack up, let the rewind button fail, which happened more than a few times, and crank up 100 or more feet of that easy to deploy red garden hose, and you will wish you used ANYTHING else. but I am from the old school

how about essentials or basic ff?

I keep hearing "it is easier"!! Is it so difficult to stretch a handline these days? lets see some of the benifits, you learn how to properly stretch a line under "fire conditions" without a lot pressure (not pump pressure) you learn how to control the nozzle and the stream you want to use, the MPO gets more practice pumping and figuring out his friction loss, you put the proper amount of gpms where it is needed, if you are short handed even better yet, you live in the real world get used to it.

it is not a question of "Fault", you are assigned to go you go and by the same token whenever we ask for M/A from MVFD they send it, no matter what their manning is. Is it right?

Price is up on water, maybe we should stop washing our cars in the firehouse!