robert benz

ok I will try one more time, the pics show 4 cops 3 on a 2 1/2 " and 1 supervising. It also looks like no one is in danger, and the operation is defensive. 1. When the pd was dispatched was it for a particular pd function per their sop's or did they just buff the call? 2. if it was to perform pd duties who is now doing those? 3. If they were not needed to do their job go back in service, or did more pd have to show up to fulfill those duties while they were on the line. 4. I keep hearing about helping the pd when / if they are being attacked of course no question, again no one is in danger here 5. A little math defensive operation with the 2.5" line. tft flowing approx 250 gals per minute plus 4 anybodys (pd, fd, dpw etc) or place a master stream into operation with the same 2.5" line and flow a min of 500 gals with a 3/8" tip and leave one member there to supervise that operation and you just freed up 3 people. I am not bashing cops I am wondering why so many of the members on here feel it is ok to put anybody at anytime on a fire scene just because you need help. Thats what radio's are for, push the button and call for more help. I keep reading about rural depts and lack of manpower so basically someone went thru a lot of training to become a "firefighter" and now that there is an incident anybody with 2 legs and 2 arms is put to work. Something doesnt seem right in that situation.

Most of you seem to be missing the fact the not enough qualified personal were at the scene forcing the ic to use non fire dept personal to do fire dept functions. This lack of qualified personal is a huge problem in the fire service today. Non fire dept personal should not be used period, put enough players on the field or dont call yourself a "team".

there is a big difference in your what if first case the engine going to the parade was it in service for a fire? it was manned or whatever you want to call that. ANYTIME our apparatus is manned the members ppe is along with them, going to training, the shop, fuel, parade, whatever. If the vehicle isnt in service, and moving, going out of town for repair or coming back from repair, no ppe, and you might not have a ff behind the wheel, as you need a cdl to move the apparatus at that point. My point is there are plenty of times that a fire apparatus gets a call or runs into a call while on the road. The first situation getting a call on the road, stop the rig get dressed and then proceed, nothing worse from the bystanders point of view of having an apparatus show up and there is a need for quick action, and now the ff's "decide" that they want to get into their gear. There could be a thousand reason's why they showed up in station wear but the public as we have already witnessed doesnt care about the truth, just a good story. so to end my rant the drags boys should have had their gear on the engine, they should have taken the time to get dressed, and last it was a car fire end of the week it will be a 4 x 4 metal square going on a ship somewhere, why get hurt or bring discredit to your dept for a burning hunk of garbage. I will answer your last part of the question with my own, is a police car with a shop mechanic behind the wheel checking the brakes, required to stop at a crime just because he is in a police vehicle?

so what you are saying is the end justify the means ???

from looking at the photo the hosebed is waist high

just because you can sue, doesn't mean you should.

so if they get a fire call, they / he/ she has to take the utility back to the firehouse. Now get the apparatus that is represented by the patch on your sleeve. XYZ FIRE DEPT.

If Pass alarms are going off on the fireground by accident it is a training issue plain and simple.

I have a couple of thoughts, this isnt anything new, been going on for years, the people know about it, and roll the dice. No different than laying off police and firefighters and the residents clap and say sorry but i want lower taxes, (but in turn expect the same services). I hear this "moral high ground" sentiment and have to think, what if a firefighter got injuried during the fire that his dept, in writing, isnt supposed to be involved in, does the municipality have the right to then refuse to pay for treatment. Or how about the injuried firefighter sues the officer for sending him into a situation that is clearly outside of his dept sop's. The "we are firefighters and have to do something" has to be based on sound principal's and training. 50 - 60 % of deaths at confined space incidents are would be rescuer's. What about the thougt process that balances 75.00 against your home. We dont have this problem on the east coast yet, but listen up as the people weigh taxes against services in all communities, career and volunteer.

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i am missing something, colored nozzles for colored outlets right? so you have an extra 1 1/2" fog, and smooth bore, also the same with 2 1/2" fog and s/b nozzles for each outlet on your apparatus? Cus all hell breaks loose it seems if i put a blue nozzle with a red outlet.

unless it is always the same nozzle, length of hose and size of hose attached to the color you are talking about, and you have it posted under each outlet what to pump at, you need more than colors. If you have to say "give me more pressure or back it off", then the pump operator didnt know what pressure to pump, before he charged the line. head pressure (gravity) is also important but i don't want to turn this into a pump ops class

and all these years i thought we jumped into a trampoline at drill school wow go figure

lots of good recipes for sure, ok for some old timer out there who has a copy of the GREAT HUDSON VALLEY FIREHOUSE COOKBOOK. soft cover, flip chart style, lots of good firehouse recipes in that one also

cpat is the agility test for the depts outside of the vulcan decree, we still have to give it to the 4 cities recruits sometime during probie school.

John not to make this too personal, but you fired a shot and now I want to reply, I personaly know of at least 3 confined space awareness classes this year with 2 taught myself in the last month, no students from Croton fd in the classes, both had openings. If you are having problems with the way DES is handling training, or your situation in Croton, the people to talk to work in the same building as you do. As for class / student size, OFPC sets the limits for all of their classes, both minimum and if needed maximum. They have to approve any classes submitted for teaching, if it is an State course. Not enought students register the class is to be cancelled. Here is a list of training offered by Westchester this month alone missing are the 2 confined space awareness classes and a Trench awareness class already completed Date Posted Class Details Description / Location Start Date Status Register 11/01/10 10-136 Incident Safety Officer - Katonah Satellite 12/09/10 Running Running 11/12/10 10-138 Firefighter I with Survival 12/02/10 Running Running 12/02/10 10-142 Firefighter I - DAYTIME 12/20/10 Closed Closed 12/02/10 10-143 Firefighter Search and Assist Team - DAYTIME 12/27/10 Closed Closed 12/02/10 10-144 The Operational Challenges of Garden Apartment Complexes - DAYTIME - County 12/20/10 Open Register 12/02/10 10-145 The Operational Challenges of Garden Apartment Complexes - County 12/20/10 Open Register 12/02/10 11-01 Fire Officer I 01/04/11 Closed Closed 12/02/10 11-02 Fire Behavior and Arson Awareness 01/05/11 Open Register 12/02/10 11-03 Intro to Fire Officer - Katonah Satellite 01/13/11 Open Register 12/02/10 11-04 Principles of Instruction - Mamaroneck Satellite 01/22/11 Open Register 12/02/10 11-05 Think Like an Incident Commander - DAYTIME - County 01/10/11 Open Register 12/02/10 11-06 Thermal Imaging Camera Training - County 01/22/11 Closed Closed 12/07/10 11-07 Principles of Building Construction: Combustibles 01/11/11 Open Register 12/14/10 11-08 Incident Safety Officer 02/01/11 Open Register 12/07/10 11-09 Fire Police - Katonah Satelite 02/03/11 Open Register 12/14/10 11-10 Principles of Building Construction: Noncombustibles 01/18/11 Open Register 12/15/10 11-11 Thermal Imaging Camera Training - DAYTIME 01/05/11 Open Register 12/15/10 11-12 Ice/Wold Water Rescue - Technician Level 02/12/11 Open To register please see instructions on bulletin and use page 2-3 for submission 12/15/10 11-13E BLS CME Series: Hypothermia and Cold Injury (DAY) 01/12/11 Open Register 12/15/10 11-14E BLS CME Series: Hypothermia and Cold Injury (EVE) 01/12/11 Open Register 12/17/10 11-15 Firefighter I with Survival 01/20/11 Open Register 12/17/10 11-16 Fire Officer I 02/01/11 Open Register 12/17/10 11-17 Scene Support Operations 01/26/11 Open Register Feature ..Copyright 2010 Westchestergov.com .

dont know what their SOP's are. depending on the location of the reported fire, and there are several ways to help locate it, visual on arrival, dispatch info, alarm panel info, etc. the elevators are most certainly used to gain access to the upper floors, (above 7). Our sops put the first due engine driver as the elevator operator. We also have in our SOP's how to control the elevator, stopping at least once if you know where you are going, 2 floors below, checking the shaft for smoke or water, etc. forcible entry tools for the elevator operator in case of... think about time, you can arrive at the location in minutes, and spend up to 10 just getting into the building, getting an elevator, stopping at selected floors, getting out 2 floors below, walking up and then locating the fire think how long the fire can spread if you have to walk up 20 flights. and as a last note if the building is not equiped with firemans service then the elevator isnt used.

Not disagreeing with you, BUT... We just had 3 ff-1 classes going at the same time: 1 assigned live fire, 1 doing water supply, and 1 doing hose streams, so it isnt as easy as it seems. We need the engine, and it will save some depts from having to go long distances. I welcome the idea of a second engine to help us all out at the fire academy. as a side note most dept's ask to be used at the academy while a ff-1 or ff-2 class is going on, as their own members do benefit from the experience IE: pumping, driving to and from, foam ops, radio communications etc.

Many times at the fire academy, multiple evolutions with multiple depts, are taking place, so that is why depts need to help out and supply apparatus. While you make a good point about keeping the apparatus in service for the people who pay for it, for all the times rigs are out of service or out of the community, I would think training is easy to justify.

OK, I stirred up a lively discussion on another thread so here is my question, A) How much time / experience do you need to move up from firefighter to company officer? How much time MUST be spent at each position of rank prior to moving up? My questions come as a result of a member with 2 yrs as a firefighter, taking the role of Lt. My opinion is that you do not have enough firematic experience to put yourself in the position of responsibility for other members. Yes it is a blanket statement and, in my opinion, it diminishes the rank of Lieut. or whatever rank is held, to a point of "what difference does it make". This isn't meant to be a personal attack on any member - just putting it out there to see how others feel. I didn't include career depts in this thread as the criteria is different - not without some of the same problems, but different.

good point lets be honest both are dangerous. I have heard about the young, gun-ho, energetic 2/3 yr firefighter who should be respected for stepping up. at 2/3 yrs you SHOULD be all of the above,or get out of the fire service. and i would respect him / her more if they admitted they were not ready to move up. at 2/3 yrs you dont even know what you dont know. why isnt the old chief voted out??? too much politics? sounds like a dept problem. I also have read some of these replies that are stating that the Lt position isnt anything big just a learning position. the learning was supposed to take place at the firefighter level. If you are an officer and you are supposed to be above the firefighter then you had better act like an officer and except the responsibilities that come with the rank. you may be a junior officer but still have to act like one. Maybe I am wrong here what are the roles of junior lt's? Can they lead a team into a fire? assign roles to incoming units? place apparatus?

John, I will develope a officers course and provide it at the county level.

My point was and still is, if we as a fire service are to respect the ranks of officers who are there to lead us and not just take up a spot, 2 years in the fire service is not enough time to have learned the job well enough to go to a point of leading members. Shouldn't you at least learn the job before taking on the responsibility of leading the job? And he could have refused the nomination. So Millwood has no time frame to be a firefighter before running for officer? That could be a problem in itself. This isnt a personal attack on Jason, this about the system that allows firefighters to progress to quickly to a point of responsibility when they havent MASTERED all aspects of the role they were in, and this goes for all ranks.

ahh they grow up so fast Jason was in ff-1 in 2008 and now he is a lieut.