robert benz

as simple as i can make it NRFD: 5 engines - 3 staffed 1 officer and 3 ff's - 2 staffed 1 officer and 2 ff's 3 ladder's - 3 members on each may or may not have an officer 1 shift command vehicle - 2 members - 1 deputy chief / 1 aide minimum total on duty 29 members heavy rescue not manned on a regular basis ems - transcare - 3 als buses no vollies

if the price of admission is too much dont go. pay the fare as was stated most dont do it anymore because of the pos's that abused it. if you dont take the break you cant be accused of screwing it up.

i learned a long time ago that the "RED LINE" never crosses the sidewalk, and we did away with the booster for car fires and trash fires also, why? not enough gpms. maybe with the high pressure booster lines you can get away with something BUT WHY!!!! using handlines teaches you how to stretch them properly, operate the nozzle properly, pump properly, and then there is no confusion. why do we always want to dumb down the job and make it easier. commerial building fire and stretch a booster for any reason that is a hundred years of tradition without progress thats my rant

along those same lines when i hear "workers on the scene" i always assume the worst plumbers roofers floor sanders you got to be prepared

how about making sure a TIC is on scene and that the members know how to use it. now that the live fire pod is up and running at the fire academy, what better place to learn how to use it. Batt 14 just ran a drill on that last week

every engine and every truck carries a chain saw for tree work. last fall every member was given a hands on class about chain saw safety and tree limb cutting by a member who did commercial work cutting trees. the class included wires in trees, large sections of tree down, changing saw blades, overall safety check before starting saw

everyone is jumping on the truss roof theory, and why were they in there, truss roofs arent dangerous until the fire attacks the structure, which it finally did. My bigger concern is this fire came in as an outside or rubbish fire. if that is true then at some point this fire extended into the structure and went undected. The civilian who was trapped and later rescued stated he was in an area off the warehouse and that when he opened the door he found a large amount of fire in the warehouse and thats when he called 911. This what I believe we have to learn from, 3 basics from firefighter one, LOCATE , CONFINE , EXTINGUISH. If we dont locate it the rest cant get done. Many many firefighters over the years have been killed and injuried due to trouble locating the seat of the fire. A chief stated there were drop ceilings in the showroom area, was there fire above their heads attacking the structure as they entered??? how do we find out, near wherever your entry point is, if you have drop ceiling tiles you have to pop some up, it is a wide open area (plenum) above your head, and if the fire is up there attacking the roof structure or the drop ceiling attachments, you have to know that before you get to far into the building. Brett Tarver from PFD died from an outside rubbish fire that got into the rear of a supermarket. how long does it take to regroup and now stretch lines to the front of a store and all the way back to the rear??. all the while the fire is growing. Sorry for any rant but it doesnt seem the "truss roof" was the initial problem, but locating where this fire was or had extended to was. Another reason why we need "enough" firefighters on the scene right away.

i dont buy the whole "i didnt know how to become one" deal. there are people out there that DONT WANT TO BE IN A FIRE OR A COP OR WHATEVER. This is 2007 not 1950, i am tired of hearing how we have to shove a job at somebody to get them to take it. if you put the word out on the street that you could sign up to be a firefighter, never have to show up for work, and still get paid i wonder how many applicants you would get then. I DONT CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE OR WHERE YOU WERE BORN THOSE THAT WANT THE JOB GO AFTER IT THOSE THAT DONT DONT maybe i am too old school for this world

you guys are killing me i am not saying the guys didnt do what they had to do any moron will tell you they got out and did the best they could. if they were taught that way AND THAT WAY ONLY they MAY BE in deep sh*t if they come across a ladder that is set up correctly or worse yet too steep, icy, wet, they are tired whatever. MY POINT WAS WE TEACH THE CORRECT WAY, IF I AM PERFORMING VES AND I AM CLIMBING THE LADDER I AM GOING TO SET IT UP CORRECTLY. IF I NEED TO GET BACK ON THAT LADDER I AM HOPING TO DO SO FEET FIRST. IF I NEED TO BAIL I KNOW HOW TO DO IT ON AN ANGLE THAT IS SET UP FOR CLIMBING NOT JUST A LADDER SET UP LATER BY A FAST TEAM THAT IS FLAT ENOUGH THAT ANYBODY TRAINED OR NOT COULD GET DOWN. AND THAT IS NOT A BAD THING TO DO, BUT IF THAT IS ALL YOU KNOW GOOD LUCK ON THE RIGHT ANGLE. i have performed the manuever a couple of hundred times at least, all in training without an incident. I HOPE TO NEVER HAVE TO USE IN ANGER

sorry but in my world i dont live with "the ends justify the means", they got lucky and luck runs out. I dont teach to put the ladder at the wrong angle i put up a ladder the way i will climb it.

And in NEW JERSEY...Fire Chief James Janone of Victory Gardens has been suspended from duty until June 17 for going into a house in which there supposedly was smoke without wearing his protective gear. Janone responded to a call about a smoky house, he did not see flames or smoke coming from the house and decided to go in wearing street clothes, leaving his protective gear in his truck, according to borough Administrator Debbie Evans and the minutes from a May 15 council hearing. After a May 17 hearing within the fire department, Janone was suspended for 30 days and Assistant Fire Chief Larry Gallello (who reported the incident) was appointed acting fire chief during Janone's suspension. Janone told the council he did not think he was in violation of fire regulations. "The call came in as a smoke condition. We get calls all the time for things like that, and sometimes they are unfounded, or sometimes it is nothing," he said. "(In this case) there was no working structure fire, there were no flames, there was no smoke... If I needed to put the gear on, it was my judgment call." Well, as far as we are concerned, put the gear on for protection and to set the example...but as usual, there is more to this story. If interested, we posted the entire media report on our News/Updates section. FINAL NOTE: Are You Ready to Respond? A complete drill for the Fire Service Safety Stand Down Week June 17-23, 2007 is available for download at www.Respondersafety.com . Check it out. Take Care-BE CAREFUL, BillyG The Secret List 6-6-07 / 1320 hours www.FireFighterCloseCalls.com we have touched on this topic before is this the first time a chief has been suspended?? like was stated there are rules and then there is common sense

the gator is a 6 wheel atv john deere type. we use it for large crowd gatherings as an ems cart, also carries extinguishers or when we need it to be, an scba cart for transporting bottles.

some good points, as a FAST instructor since the course was started in NYSTATE, I have seen all kinds of firefighters come thru for certification. Most are aggressive interior guys counted on to fight the red devil. So over the years I have seen the Vol Depts figure out these firefighters cant be in two places at once, inside fighting the fire and outside as the FAST. Westchester Vol depts have made great progress in mutual aiding FAST so the host dept can concentrate on fighting the fire with the members it has on scene, which is usually not enough. (not bashing, paid has the same problem). As far as a standard goes, OFPC is now in the process of rewriting the whole FAST program, making it longer and with more pre req's. Too many new FF's are passing FF-1, going straight into survival, then taking FAST, and they havent seen a working fire. It is up to each Fd as to how to assign members for the FAST, but the state is taking the steps to slow down the process. All I can say now is I hope all those students I have taught never have to use any of the skills they learned. I guess i ranted a little, all Chief officers, Career or Vol. need to know who is coming, from where, and how long till they arrive, and then where is my next unit if I need one

this is where paid vs vol stuff really gets heated up, 15 ff's per shift is too many??? since it seems to really annoy you enough to look up the stats for the city and compare it to your own village, how many firefighters do you want showing up to a fire in your house. and i am talking in the first 5 minutes not 30 minutes later when the head count is really taken. so you will do whtever the boss asks huh, well what if the boss asks someone else to do your job for no more money, hey guess what you are out of a job, if that guy thinks like you. there are ways to save money and there are ways to just make busy work, it probably is a small area that has lost its tax base and is looking for a way to make it all work. did the mayor and all city council workers offer to take a pay cut??? there is more to this story than just cutting grass, on your point about civil service workers leaving there jobs to respond to a call, i am not anti vol but in this day and age nobody is sitting around either a garage or a paid firehouse playing checkers waiting for something to do, dpw workers leaving their job to respond, how do they get to the call?? what if half the crew leaves what does the other half do?? what happens to that work?? delayed, so my tax $$$$ are lost for at least 30 minutes if not more every time the whistle blows. you just seem very quick to question the number of personal on duty, and what they do, compared to Tarrytown. dont worry about the size of the area it's what is inside the boundries that makes the difference

there was time not to long ago a mayor ordered the beds removed from all firehouses in a very busy city. he didnt want them to get paid to sleep and ordered the firefighters to man all apparatus and with lights flashing, drive around the city all nite to deter crime. A few apparatus accidents later and the order was recinded. Is that part of our job description? Fire protection isnt cheap, paid or vol. but nobody else is going to do it. Depts both paid and vol. have to show the community a positive image and have the political clout to stop stupid sh*t like that from happening.

just the fact you thought that they as firefighters should cut the park grass and be happy about it ????? lets see what do you do for a living, and ask you to do someone elses work. Hell why dont they pick up garbage and paint park benches, trim trees who needs any other city workers we got firefighters

what i think he means is if the ladder was at the proper climbing angle those 2 guys would have come down so fast they would have been unable to stop or hold on. And yes we do teach the ladder bailout, always with a belay line.

this just came from tom wutz chief of nystate office OFPC "Do not use this video in any NYS sponsored Fire Training Course" a firefighter in the state of California demonstrated the same (head first ladder slide) technique and was killed instantly when he head hit the pavement and broke his neck. I have no doubt that someone, some place will try to do/demonstrate this technique and the potential for another tragedy is always there. Because of your effort and professionalism as instructors we have an excellent safety record in the training program. Some bumps and bruises, some out of shape students but fortunately no serious injures in the recent past. I do not want you or I to bear the burden of being a root cause of a potential death or debilitating injury.

ok now for the training session, are there any questions that should be asked about this fire video? a video or pic captures only a small part of the whole story. I am picking on the newer members to the fire service, what do you see or what should you be asking after viewing that video. not monday morning this job, this could be any FD at any time, just trying to get some questions asked and input from experienced members

couple of things come to mind, fire will make you jump out of a window ladder or not. it was a far from perfect escape, let that ladder be a LOT SHORTER making it a steeper angle, instead of being too long, and they still would have come out head first, but without someway of stopping their desent, and they would have hit the ground or hopefully someone would have helped them down like the video of the Baltimore bailout. it looks like the second guy has his mask on so he most likely removed his pack at some point but not his facepiece GREAT MOVE TO HELP PREVENT SERIOUS BURNS. I am not being to picky good move finding the window and getting out, I dont want some of our younger members trying that ladder slide there is the right way to train on how to do it, and then there is the I am coming out this window right now, ladder or no ladder, training or no training. As was stated an instructor died doing that maneuver, when he fell off the ladder and broke his neck.

with all the discussion about the problems Larchmont Fd is facing, my question is why did you join your FD? And are you getting out of it what you thought it would be? career or volunteer doesnt matter. I took one test in 1980, scored high enough to get hired and that was the happiest day of my career, and i do call it a career, 26 yrs later and i love going to work. I teach probies from day one that you are now on the fire dept it is up to you to get into the fire dept and join the brotherhood.

Remember..... You better be DAMN sure that you are 100% right if you challege an order from a superior. Make sure that your reasons for disregarding are based in knowledge, training, and experience and NOT because you've got a personal beef with following a certain person's orders. The spotlight's going to be on you to prove that what you did was right. that is very good advice, there may be a valid reason for not following an order and it has happened, but there are or could be repercussions so as to reply to the next quote: You've got to be upfront with those who are giving you orders. If you don't feel comfortable or have an untrained person telling you how to tend to your patient, let them know how yuo feel. There isn't time to pussy foot around at emergency scenes, and its best to not beat around the bush. Yeah, feelings or egos may be hurt, but at the end of the day anyone with a brain in the emergency services field will respect you for speaking up when you thought it was appropriate to do so. I am not here to bash you, but your age says 18 - 20 and you want to have a discussion with someone who just gave you a direct order? the fire service is a para military org. with a chain of command, with officers who give orders, and ff's who follow them. and my point is and i am just talking about the fire side now not ems, fires are down, fire related experience is down, and in my opinion, 18 - 20 with a very limited time in the fire service, you may not yet have a full understanding about what risks we take on the fire ground. that unsafe act better be very obvious,(like opposing handlines) you shouldnt be alone when the order to do something is given, if you want to discuss it with someone hopefully your partner has more time on than you and might be better able to explain or CONFIRM your questioning the order. experience is usually the best way to figure out what is safe and what isnt

I would like to hear from some of our PD brothers as to why there is so much confrontation when it comes to the fd shutting down a lane of traffic / or if needed the whole road/ parkway/highway for the safety of EVERYBODY on the scene. i was always told as FD we have the right to shutdown what we need to handle the scene safely. legally am i right? i know what happened last year in New Jersey. So many Police Officers get hit or nearly hit each year it would seem to me that they would be more than happy to work safely also. It isnt a HUGE problem, but i have been on scene too many times to say it is an isolated incident. the screaming matches and threats of arrest have to stop when it is simply a safety issue. and as a side note PD can shut the road down for hours to complete an investigation. aside from the rant where do we stand legally?

ok officer, i have plenty of friends who are cops and i respect your job i dont want it!!! how would you feel if i came on the scene and started yelling at you to move your police car cus i didnt like where you parked it. i dont tell you how to do your job, i just have an obligation to my crew and my self to get everyone home in one piece and the safest way to do that is to block a lane if i need it. i am not talking about an officer who calmly asks how much longer till i can get the road open i am talking about a full fledged screaming match one other point i want to make, as this was mentioned somewhere in this whole thread we dont take our apparatus off road onto soft shoulders just so a car can get by, we keep the rubber on the road. i have seen too many apparatus get stuck in the mud to ever advise my drivers to get onto the soft shoulder. like i said earlier it isnt ALL PD but dont you guys want to go home after every shift too?

i was just making a point about the road shut down for the investigation, i know the pd has a job to do. but it does seem ironic that when you have something to do hey no problem shut it down for hours, when in most cases and i am speaking about my area, i-95, hutch, we dont want to be on the road any longer than we have to. and there is nothing that even says we have to go on the major highways as far as i know. local pd doesnt go on the hutch or 95 as my boss once said let them break our stones too much and they can call the state fire dept to respond. we usually have a good working relationship, all it takes is one guy who is having a bad day or bad attitude and all hell breaks loose. and i understand a trooper has his orders to keep cars moving, hey the candian border is no place to get transfered to, thats why when it gets too bad and cant be resolved we call for a pd supervisior and a fd chief.