waful

I guess they didnt get the memo to avoid cutting through the YO when fleeing from the pd.

Being a jew myself I can speak freely. These individuals in almost EVERY aspect take advantage of the Earth. From the blatant violation of the sanctity of marriage to the flagrant misuse of the vehicle and traffic laws they just rape and pillage. I am so happy that I live in Putnam far from the filth that they call home in many towns in Orange and Rockland. I feel for all of you that must deal with these people with such a feel of entitlement. They use their supposed block voting to scare every single politician in to succumbing to their needs. We need someone with a set to just tell them to STFU get off welfare and stop playing games. All we need is a law stating that two people living together legally, and verified through surveillance, which I am sure we can get volunteers to do, shall not be the beneficiary of social services.
Rant Over

Fully involved car fire - vehicle unoccupied upon PD & FD arrival. Brought quickly under control by NRFD. Photos are out of order, my apologies - I guess I uploaded them backwards.

From Incident Alert:
Date: 06-17-12 (Sunday)
Time: 18:19hrs.
Weather Conditions: Warm and Clear
Description Of Incident: Chief 80 o/s reporting a kitchen fire on the 2nd floor of a 7-story brick 200'x200' OMD w/reports of victims trapped. Companies o/s w/heavy fire showing w/extension to the 3rd floor. 2nd and 3rd Alarms transmitted by Command for heavy fire conditions and numerous victims trapped. Command reporting fire extended to the 5th and 6th floors w/jumpers down. 4th, 5th, and 6th Alarms transmitted by Command. Heavy fire on the 2nd through 6th floors. Numerous L/S/O's w/master streams in operation. Ladder Companies opening up. Numerous victims rescued. Command requested 24 additional Ambulances to the scene for 30 victims to be transported to local hospitals. All hands working.
The above incident occured yesterday in Hempstead L.I.. The depts. did a great job and everyone was very lucky to have no fatalities.
Identical buildings exist in Westchester from Yonkers to Peekskill along the Hudson, from Pelham Manor to Portchester along the LI Sound and from Mount Vernon North to _______ along the Harlem Line MNRR.
How many depts. can get enough trained personnel on scene fast enough?
How many are competent in fighting a fire in this type of structure?
How long would it take to get 24 additional ambulances?
And how would the performance be if the weather was not perfect and it was at other times/day of the week?
Finally, how do we get there from here?

good to see some that would rather use there time to train then march in a parade! goodd job to all involved!

YEP...WE'LL FILL YOUR POOL...IF THAT'S WHAT YOU REALLY WANT

You talk about doing more with less, but no matter what trucks are on scene you need manpower. At what point do we stop trying to do more with less and just get more help?

Pedro what do you mean by magic kingdom? And you clearly aren't over it because if you were you wouldn't be posting how much you are "over this sort of thing". Please elaborate because your statement right now has no foundation.

Many departments, including their leaders, do not undertsand the mission of a truck company, do not take it into consideration when designing an attack plan, do not train adequately or appropriately with it and do not fund it properly.

How about just answering her question instead of giving her a hard time... is it really that big of a deal that you had to run on here to post tihs "horrible" experience you had? Did you ever consider maybe she was new?

For some reason, some people put a lot of weight on "In house Training" like drills. As a volunteer fire captain, I dont see how we can. It simply isnt the same as state training lead by a certified state fire instructor.
To me, training is two parts; State Fire Training, than supplement with station drills taught by competent officers and assisted by trained experienced firefighters. Some departments have no clue how a drill should be, Ive seen departments say that a control burn is a drill yet they only stood around and watched it to make sure it didnt spread. Thats not a drill, maybe for the pump operator who had to secure a water source and charge a line but not for interior firefighters. Than there is the departments who sit around the station all night BS'ing and doing nothing but getting away from the home front for a while, than they sign a drill sheet that SAYS they did a drill of some sort for 3 hours...how can a departments drill habbits be properly accounted for?? In the career sector there is no doubt, no questioning because its mandated and properly accounted for annually.
Thats why a lot of people are having a hard time seeing the training of volunteers as beeing sufficient...its not. Im a volunteer and I say its not. And to add to this this department isnt even a ligitimately operating fire department, they are not on anyones radar including OFPC as being listed in NY State as a fire department, so how do they get the insurance for their members?? If one of them gets hurt, are they covered?? They are not even dispatched at all by a 911 dispatch center?? There is too much that screams wrong here to me, they need to be investigated and someone needs to intervene here and put an end to this madness.

Engine 113 was the source pumper at the dry hydrant on Oscaleta road. E113 fed E112 and E140 that were the relay pumpers in line up to the fire scene. During the operation of the Tower Ladder 57, Tanker 2 was used to supply the master stream. I hope this clears everything thing up for the brothers that were not on the scene and are monday morning quaterbacking rural water operations...... Us up here in the North county do not always have the luxury of having those red things every 500 feet. Sometimes we need to get down and dirty and actually lay out an entire bed of hose.

Well, I wasn't there but I monitored 60 Control from the start. What is they say about real estate: Location, Location, Location. In this case it worked against everyone. Narrow, long street access, significant distances for responding departments, poor water supply and a big head start in a large volume structure.
The size of the fire and the size of the response without any injuries I'm aware of is rather remarkable.

I remember the tag system from a previous volunteer membership. It has its roots in simplicity, and that's a good thing, but my experience with it was a failed experience. It's a lot to ask for a guy to take a tag and put it some place on the pump panel when he's one of the first people on scene and rushing to do a search or grab the first line. It just doesn't happen.
Budgets are tight these days, but there is no reason that we can't justify the cost of assigning a radio to every interior qualified member in the volunteer setting. No one should be operating inside a fire building without one. I know they're expensive, but so is that tower ladder, second aerial, Q sirens and 14 million LED lights.....let's prioritize and get members the gear they deserve for safety's sake.

Bnechis asks
"Do you handle the 1st rig or 2 different than once you have established a "full" command structure?"
Of course, Barry. Why? Because we work in companies and 1 or 2 things is easy to keep track of.
It's the "Stop and Shop Theory."
If I say to my wife "I'm going to the hardware store, do you need anything while I'm out?"
She says "Get milk and bread." I don't have to write it down...it's only 2 things. I'll remember that.
If she adds one more thing..."Oh and get salad dressing." I instinctively start a list...I'm moving toward that magic number 5 in my span of control. When they say ICS can be used for everything, take it to heart. By the time I get out of the house there will be ten items on that list, but I was prepared because of ICS.
Next week's lesson will be:
Sunday afternoon Rehab Training. See how the NFL, a Bud Lite, and a recliner fit into ICS.

Really!!! There is no need to apologize! You simply posed a simple question out of pure honest personal interest and curiosity that became a political s*** storm as usual. I appreciate EVERYONE’s thoughts and professional opinions, but to continue to turn every damn thing into a political push is ridiculous. Honestly thats what is a complete turn off on this site!
I agree personnell is by far extremly imparitive (No debate from me), but the kid was just asking a simple question. It would be nice to see a topic stick to the point rather then become argumentive.

AFA are not always False Alarms. This is a big mistake in termonology.
A false Alarm is when there is no legit reason for the alarm. Smoke from cooking (burn popcorn in microwave), steam from the shower, dust from workers, candles, etc. The system did what it was designed to do, so its not a false alarm, its an accidental or unintentional alarm.
It is important that the public understands this so they do not ignor alarms in the future.

It hides the fact that you don't have proper staffing to get an engine out the door in the first place...

I have been waiting a while for this to be discussed. This is one of the things that annoys me the most. IMHO there is nothing worse than not getting to the scene or even rolling a rig to a good amount of alarms. I understand that there is liability having the trucks on the road for false alarms but... you could always slow down the response. After all, rigs need to be driven and it is good for drivers to get on the road as frequently as possible. It is good practice to arrive on scene and use good judgment in terms of rig placement. It is good practice for crews to pack up and to use thermal imaging cameras, sniffers, gas meters, etc to refresh themselves, or teach younger members how to use them. This is one of the pros of having members respond to the scene POV...this way they see the scene, make a size-up, etc. I know several people who run calls when they are home from work or have someone to watch the kids who have not been on a scene in a while because they are put back in service right after the rig leaves the station or do not even leave the station.
I am a big fan of checking out building, exposures, hydrant locations, etc on false alarms because it better prepares me for future calls. It is also a good time to check pre-fire plans and update them accordingly.
Another thing that bothers me that so many people do not know what types of businesses are in their districts, or what is inside of a building. It is so important to tour building in your district and to know what to expect on alarms, where the control panel is, where the sprinkler system is, standpipes, stairs, elevators, rescue windows, etc. False alarms better prepare you for real alarms.

I notice a lot of Chiefs who arrive on scene and cancel responding apparatus because it's a false alarm.
Why not use this oppurtunity as a training oppurtunity? Have apparatus continue in, non-emergency mode, and practice apparatus placement. If you have time, put up the ladder and see if the pre-plan works or can be adjusted. Have members look at the challenges the building presents. Have the supply engine find the hydrants. As far as "taking time out of busy lives", when they respond to the alarm, they would spend the time fighting the fire, if that's what it was.
Cancelling apparatus also is bad for morale, when you know your responding to an AFA and know your Chief will beat you there and cancel you.

I read this thread yesterday and have been following the discussion for a day and now feel compelled to add my opinion. It is disappointing that a member of this site asks a simple question about the status of a piece of apparatus which has been placed out of service due to fire and the automatic responses that are generated turn immediately to why does this department need this truck?
The funny thing is that rarely are the one’s questioning the needs of (fill in the blank) Fire Department, at all associated with that department – so how would you know what their communities specific needs are?
As example, I wouldn’t question why one department – of which I have no affiliation with or knowledge of their needs - has 3 ladder trucks even though they are surrounded by departments with ladder trucks on every side of their community – because it’s not my place to. If that department has determined that is what they need to do their job, I trust that their leadership has made an educated decision and that they are not just stroking their egos.
Ironically, it’s double edged sword here as well; a northern department is questioned why so much mutual aid is needed at a house fire, but another department that is self-sufficient is accused of wasting tax payer dollars and questioned why they need this truck or that truck instead of using more mutual aid. It doesn’t make sense; it’s ludicrous.
There was an interesting article on here lately about the fire service and its changing nature; how departments are being asked to respond to new situations and different types of emergencies all the time. Proper response to these new challenges often requires newer tools, gear and equipment to effectively mitigate these hazards; which in turn often means purchasing a newer and larger truck to carry this equipment and get the job done.
So - why does this town need this truck? Because their membership and commissioners and potentially their insurance agency have determined it is necessary for their district and their firefighters to do their job effectively.
This, of course, is not the first time that others who think they know what is best for everyone else interject their own beliefs or who knows maybe even their envy at some other departments rolling stock and I’m sure it won’t be the last – but still it’s disappointing; it is one of the reasons I seldom participate on this site any longer.
Periodically someone on this site will post something about making this site what we want it to be – a place where positive discussion can take place and where people can learn. But that doesn’t happen; the forcing of agendas continues. Then there is the occasional thread that asks why member participation is down on this site and I think to myself in response to that question, I can’t imagine why someone would feel compelled to post something here when others with agendas, or egos, or envy, or whatever pick apart every detail of every call, decision and comment made. It really is disappointing.

? I have actually seen people with dwarfism pull 5 inch off the engine (not that hard, just grab the first length and run with it). Are you saying they need a larger hook than other people or that cause they are shorter they will grab the wrong one? Ok, so they need to get a bigger hook oh well. Do taller people use smaller hooks? Is that wrong? Uh we all use ladders there pal. I've also seen a ff with the same situation grab a 24' fiberglass extension ladder off the side of the engine and carry it to the side of the building and raise it up alone with no assistance whatsoever. If someone can do the job who cares what they look like or how they overcome it to get it done.

I had the privilege of being Jeff's instructor on several occasions and can tell you he is one of the most dedicated and motivated students I've had and is a very capable firefighter who earned every single certification he has by far exceeding the minimum standard. I would work with Jeff any day.
To simply put it..you have to meet the standards. We can debate what the "minimum" standard is, but everyone who enters a course, I can assure you at a "minimum" is meeting the standard of the curriculum set forth by NY State and the NFPA.

What I don't understand is most the surrounding Municipalities will only hire off a residency list but as soon as a person is off Probation or even while still on in some cases, they are allowed to move elsewhere. Maybe it's time for NY Depts. to adopt the same policies as many Connecticut Depts. and have one list. Who gives a rats a** where somebody lives, i want the best person for the job! Would you rather have an individual who was number one on an "out of town" list backing you up or some guy that got a final grade of a 70% and was 100 on the "in town" list? Like I said not too many individuals even reside anymore in the Towns, Villages or Cities where they work. It's not like years ago and some places have a very scarce legitamate picking pool to even choose from. There's many people who just don't want the Job, no matter how much you beg them to apply form it.

Unfortunately...I witnessed that a few times over my career as well. Once when on scene saying to myself "this is crazy..." and once I was in an apparatus where you could see a column of smoke and the chief of the other dept. in my county cancelled us (which was common then as there was a rivalry/contention between our departments) and the officer on board didn't concur that we should just continue in and stage up the street...and then someone else over rode that chief and called us back.
I often say in classes...your first 20 seconds on the fireground..dictates your next 20 minutes....and those 20 minutes will dictate your next 2 hours.