spin_the_wheel

BMA

"One and one" to the scene is pretty much the norm in most places when an extra alarm is struck. Most of the time one and one is also sent to standby at a departments quarters as well. The next alarm the units standing by move up to the scene and a new set of "one and one" go to the firehouse. Not everywhere but most places. You also have to consider these are career departments. Taking one and one form some of the smaller ones may leave that department with nothing left of on duty personnel until a recall or a mutual aid to their department is requested. Also they will only call other career departments so this limits the amount of assistance they can call many times.

Newsday did an extensive series on the status of the volunteer service on LI years ago. They put all the facts out there for the public to see. Correct or incorrect. What did it do? It did help keep in check many fire districts who were doing things wrong for years and has kept close accountability on spending habits to this day. Otherwise it has not had the effect many thought it would on the average taxpayer. More important then having FDNY members in LI fire departments is just the pure blue collar civil service worker who may be a shift worker. My department sees a lot of fire for an all volunteer department and we have very few FDNY members. But we do have many other shift workers who get the rigs out. Police officers, emergency service dispatchers, fire marshals, correction officers, career EMT's, nurses, sanitation and dpw workers. These are the people who keep the average volunteer fire department running in most LI departments.

Agreed. In most cases a dedicated rescue rig is not needed. Truth is for the most part the taxpayers don't give a crap. In Nassau and Suffolk your fire tax is one of the smallest if not the smallest tax compared to the rest of the bill. There are extreme examples...Gordon Heights in Suffolk is one...but not many.

Great point. I hate to compare FDNY to any other organization as they are in a world to their own. Especially when it is said "FDNY only has 5 rescues for the whole....." I have always thought that a weak argument. What are we exactly talking about? The equipment and function of the rig or the rig itself? As babhits states volunteer rescue trucks are pretty much scene support units. An FDNY heavy rescue has nothing in common with the average volunteer departments "heavy rescue" and should not be compared. The average volunteer departments rescue rig carries the extrication tool and anything that can't be stored on the other rigs. FDNY ladder companies do the bulk of the auto extrications unless the accident happens to be in one of the rescue companies first due areas. So if we are talking about extrication tools are we to compare the number of ladder companies with extrication tools in NY City vs. the number of rescue trucks in Nassau or Suffolk? Many volunteer departments have one extrication tool on a heavy rescue rig. Are we saying that there are too many extrication tools in Nassau or Suffolk or Westchester etc....? If we are to argue for trimming certain departments fleets down looking at a rig that is for the most part a scene support unit might not be the rig to cut. Maybe an Engine in some departments where one of three is always sitting in the station even during working fires.

Back in the day dedicated rescue rigs were needed to carry extrication equipment and other "rescue" tools. How many remember the first generation Hurst tools and cutters? A lot of space was needed for all this "stuff." Each community needed such a rig to carry the equipment. Nowadays a properly spec'd out Ladder or Engine can carry all this equipment plus more. Dedicated rescue rigs are really not needed in many Nassau Communities agreed. Once again the root of the problem comes back to history/tradition and leadership afraid of making a change. Most of the time what you have is a dedicated rescue or patrol company (Westchester/rockland term) with a group of members with a history. Sometimes a very old history. That's the rig they use, a rescue truck. As leadership in a particular department do you just take the rig away, sell it and disband the company? Tell the membership they have to join other companies? Nobody wants to be "that guy" to do such a thing. Not saying its wrong...just putting the facts out there. What you end up with is another form of "consolidation" that the fire service both volunteer AND career are afraid to entertain most of the time.

In a perfect world there should be ONE dispatch center to handle ALL the fire departments in a county. Big cities within a certain county aside (Yonkers, White Plains) could have their own due to complex procedures and work load. Other then that there should be on center. Nassau County is just as screwed up as Westchester with dozens of PSAPS and dispatch voices doing fire radio. In fact in Nassau a smaller dept. being dispatched by a larger neighboring department is leaving to form their own dispatch. In their 111 year history they have never had their own dispatch center. Not even going to the county, which is free. I would imagine the person will also act as a "houseman" with minimal cleaning and record keeping duties as well to justify this expense but here in the year F'in 2015 we are continually going backwards!

It is what it is. Warner Brothers does not want to take the hit of bad PR that it will undoubtedly take if it does not do this. It's one thing for a private individual to fly this flag and display it, but a "public" company so to speak. Not in 2015. About 6 years ago or so one of my departments Engine companies took a hit because there nickname since the 1920's was the Rebels. Unfortunately that flag is associated with the name. Their company logo displayed a confederate flag. After community uproar it was removed. You can't defend this image and win, trust me on this. It's just a matter of time for other "public" companies, agencies or sports teams who display this flag to come under fire.

If you had to cringe as an officer when the rigs go out the door then I really feel sorry for you. That is a bad, bad situation.

How many calls a year do both departments do? Also curious....does 60 Control have a dedicated call taker position? How is the room broken up? North South? Are the departments split about even between dispatchers? I would imagine New Rochelle has its own dispatcher?

Your points are valid. But I still think we are firefighters...when the alarm comes in or we go mutual aid we take a fire truck. I don't know where things got so twisted that this is now looked at as a bad idea. Again we will agree to disagree. Be safe everyone.

Sending guys to school and sending them to an emergency response is two different things. If the mutual aid response is no lights and sirens with the bus or van or whatever that's ok. A caged cargo area or planned out design to secure tools fine. My first post in this thread stated that a properly planned rig for transport is great. How about we take the hurst tools off the rescue rigs put them on the engines or ladders and turn all the rescue rigs into "Transports" don't even have to buy new rigs. Going home in your personal vehicle and coming upon an emergency well....not much you can do I agree. BUT coming home in a marked fire vehicle from an emergency where the 6 guys all get off with gear and some tools and cant do anything because they left the engine or ladder back home is another thing. Just looks bad. We will agree to disagree. I agree the big problem is the rigs left behind unmanned. I never argued that. My first post in this thread stated that. That is one of the things consolidation would help in. Each department would now be responsible for 1 or 2 rigs (and a bus for transport) instead of a fleet of 6 rigs where 4 sit during working fires.

Key here is "outfitted with their FAST equipment and air packs" A rig designed for transport of manpower and tools is fine. But some here are making it sound like you can just grab your department school bus and "throw" everything in. I think Ossining has a special unit designed for their FAST/RIT responses as well. That's fine.

I'll play devils advocate. Department A responds mutual aid with their 16 passenger bus. 6 guys just throw 6 scba's and an assortment of tools into the walkway between the rows of seats. On the way the bus has a terrible accident and the unsecured tools fly all over the interior of the bus hitting the members. What would OSHA and NIOSH say to this act? OR On the way back to their district they come across a car fire...or a structure fire. Cant do anything can they. OK ok chances of that are slim. How about an alarm for a house fire comes in or other alarm in their district on the way back. Are they going to go lights and sirens back to the firehouse to play key stone cops and jump out of the bus with all the "stuff" and get on "hopefully" the second due rig to go to the scene? How would this scenario look to OSHA and NIOSH if something goes bad. How would this look on the 6 o'clock news.....hmmmm let me get this straight....they took a bus to the fire and left the fire truck in the station? Hard to defend this. Just take a front line rig. Again JMO.

I never bought the whole number of Rescue trucks argument. Back in the day, in most cases, separate companies were created, and dedicated Rescue rigs built for the lack of space on the rigs of the day. Every community and fire department wanted the latest rescue tools and extrication equipment and why not they should have them. A dedicated rig WAS needed back then. It was not about the amount of rescue trucks to serve a specific area. It was about the number of rescue trucks to serve and bring the needed equipment to the scene for that particular community and department. Mutual aid and manpower were not as big of an issue way back when. Every community deserved the newest equipment and why not. Here's where the argument comes in and makes sense. Fast forward to todays fire service the need for a dedicated Rescue truck is really not needed today. UNLESS you have specialized equipment (confined, high angle, haz mat ) But the problem comes back to the "way we have always done things"...and tradition in some respect. For many departments the thought of eliminating a "company" or getting rid of rig is blasphemy. This is the problem. Todays rigs have much more room to store extrication equipment, cutting torches, traditional rescue "stuff." Well planned Rescue Engines or Ladder trucks can serve both purposes and eliminate a separate Rescue truck. I still feel every department owes it to the community it serves to have basic rescue equipment available and not have to wait for a neighboring agency to come to the scene. Does it need a dedicated rescue truck? No I do not think that is needed. The number of actual rescue rigs should be eliminated...the number of extrication tools should not. JMO