abaduck

Tom, it would take a war. Literally. That's how it happened in England. Pre-WW2 there were... somewhere between 1500 and 2000 local fire brigades, IIRC. With the outbreak of WW2, the fire service was put under central control, and there was a single national fire service throughout the war. Post-WW2, it was decentralized again - but to the county level, leaving something like 60 county fire brigades/departments. Since then that number has reduced to 45, as adjacent counties have merged their fire & rescue services.

Hang on Chief, what's the problem with POV response? The DES hazmat rig, for instance, can only hold (IIRC) 2 members, possibly with another two in the back, although (IIRC) that seating is not intended for use when the vehicle is moving. So I don't see how else members are supposed to respond, other than POV to the staging area. I can't imagine the tech rescue team will operate any differently. And what's the deal with the WSOTF? Is there any reason why a suitably-trained full time on-call professional firefighter shouldn't be on that team? At the moment I'm in the process of applying to the County hazmat team, but the comments I'm seeing (from you and others) seem to suggest that some at least don't have confidence in its leadership and capabilities. Is the WSOTF so much better, when it comes to hazmat operations? And for the record, I don't see any need for duplication of teams; it seems to me that Westchester needs ONE good tech rescue / hazmat organisation, which can draw on the best personel throughout the county, both career and volunteer.

In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards. -Mark Twain

I don't understand this. OSHA mandates that masks must fit; that's the law. So has the court just told the FD to break the law? It seems the only policy they can adopt is 'ok, facial hair is allowed - so long as you can still get a seal, per. OSHA regs. If you can't get a seal, you have to shave until you can get a seal, or you're off the department'. Or are they saying that religious freedom is absolute, and the FD must somehow find or invent some kind of mask that will allow an OSHA-compliant seal, even with a full beard? What do they expect the guys to be issued with? Space helmets?! (I had a full beard for many many years; it came off the day I joined the department and I've never missed it. My wife is another story; she had never seen me clean-shaven in all the years we had been together!!)

I wonder how well the British model would do over here - MORE county government, not less - most of the services currently provided by towns/villages/cities would be provided by the county. Schools, garbage collections, DPW in general, and yes policing and fire protection too. Property taxes are vastly lower in the UK too. Why? Because county councils get most of their income as a grant from central government, and the grant comes out of general taxation - mostly income tax, corporation tax, and purchase tax. The property tax paid directly to the local council on top of that is a relatively small top-up, at most a couple of thousand dollars per year for the biggest houses in the most expensive areas. Seems fairer to me - tax people according to what they earn or spend, not according to the value of their house, with little or no regard for ability to pay.

http://www.firefightingnews.com/article.cfm?articleID=62960 Now I'm all for assisting our LE colleagues in any way we can. But compromising our identity by having armed cops dress as firefighters for a LE operation crosses a line, IMHO.

Looks like it could be interesting to play around with - I'm doing an officers course at present and the kind of situations presented here, it could be a useful tool. *Just so long as it doesn't ever replace so much as a minute of time on the drill field!*

ALS is right on the money... and it *wasn't* a unique situation, ALS mentioned Texas, I've now read about similar situations in Providence RI, and DC.

That's a bit of an eye-opener. So you've made it a deliberate policy to allow google to see and index material that a human would need to log-in to see? Not complaining, just a bit surprised. How about archive.org?

Just to clarify: if I go to a topic when NOT logged-in, I only see the first post in the thread; it says I should login or register to see further posts. So they're safe from googlebots, right? If you post follow-ups, rather than starting a topic, google doesn't see those posts?

The reporting appears accurate. Google news gives many stories concerning this: http://news.google.com/news?ned=us&hl=...tthew+Miller%22 This story gives more detail: http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?he...4a-317d7caeac1e "Police obtained arrest and search warrants for Miller and his Sunapee Street residence and called in officers from Claremont, Sunapee and Goshen to help execute them. The Newport Fire Department also was alerted in case medical care was needed. "Police officers dressed as firefighters and using a fire truck entered the building and activated the fire alarm to evacuate residents in a safe manner so as not to bring attention to the pending arrest of Miller," Newport Police Chief David Hoyt said in a news release. As residents evacuated the building, police officers saw Miller in his apartment window with a one-year-old child in his arms. When he opened his apartment door, the faux firefighters seized the child from his arms and took him into custody without incident, Hoyt said." So it was apparently done with the co-operation of the local FD. But I still agree with INIT915; this sucks, for precisely the reasons stated; the Red Cross analogy is a good one. OK, it worked in this tactical situation; it solved this problem. But what does it do to scene safety for all of us, down the line?

On a point of order, there's definitely more to it than that, if you read carefully; they want the current Chief out: "Schoenig doesn't want to appoint Mancone [the current Chief] as officer-in-charge because he "wants to take the department in another direction," he said. But, Schoenig said, he hopes Mancone will stay involved with the Community Affairs Department and in other areas."

That will change, trust me! The first weeks are the easiest in some ways! Congratulations!

That's just taking the... piss Sorry I'll get my coat...

I think you can access the video without needing Optimum by going straight to the stream: http://news12.cv.net/video/DW0225XT.wmv

I would feel naked in a car with no seatbelt. I'd feel equally naked in a structure fire with no hood. I can't imagine myself doing either. That's how I was trained. Special thanks to Capt. Benz for a very relevant contribution. Oh, and anyone who doesn't bother with the hood at car fires - see some of those videos showing what happens when water meets burning magnesium...

1. An emphatic 'I'm going home!' should be accompanied by a precautionary 'touch wood' lest fate be tempted! 2. Let's worry about putting on wristbands once we've remembered to put on hoods and SCBA waist straps (not raining on your parade, Seth, it's a worthy idea - just being my slightly cynical self! )

Or this treatment... this is what I did to the last joker who tried to rip me off: http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.scub...cdfa9dc93?hl=en Fair warning: never piss off a hacker!

Every time I read this kind of thread, I despair about my adopted country. You want to hire firefighters? Fine. Invite applications. Give the jobs to the best candidates. Who gives a damn about age, sex, race, or residency if they're *motivated*, and can stretch a line? What's hard about that? It works pretty much everywhere else on this damn planet.

I too wondered about that... 'product placement' for a paying advertiser perhaps, but posted as an IA in the IA forum...?? <edit> ok it seems someone else took that view too, I see it's been moved since I first noticed it.

All good stuff so far - staying cool and not going on air til the last minute are important, to which I would add, take an extra few seconds to make damn sure you have a good seal on your mask. Remember it's a positive pressure mask and a bad seal will waste air faster than anything else; I've been caught out that way once myself and I won't make that mistake twice. I'm not remotely 'seasoned' but I try to learn from my mistakes!

Now you're being silly. To be objective, a list would have to be based on measurable, quantifiable criteria - number of alarms, apparatus attending, duration, whatever - *facts* which any observer would be able to determine. You know this, I know this. Whether it's the opinion of one person, or many, a subjective list such as this list remains subjective, and can never be anything else; it's just opinion, there's nothing objective, official, or canonical about it. bvfdjc316 got it dead right. It's a list. It's fun. Don't take it so seriously, ok? I don't doubt it. I enjoyed reading it myself. As I said, anytime anyone puts up a 'top ten' list of anything, it's an open invitation to suggest what *you* think should be on it! With the possible exception of amongst the hacker community, moderating lists is, always has been, and always will be, a largely thankless task. QTIP, as one of out better-known contributors would put it. Making these bits of infrastructure work generates much good karma, however

Hey take it easy Seth... any time anyone gives their 'top ten' list of anything in this life, the first thing that happens is you'll get everyone chipping in about what they agree and disagree about, and what they might have put on the list. Truck4 does a great job all-round, I don't think anyone fails to recognise that. And I don't mean to sound churlish, but the list (like all such lists) IS simply subjective opinion (although opinion based on a lot of data, in the case of Truck4!) - I'm sure he put a lot of work into it, but any of us could come up with his or her own list, I don't consider it the kind of post that merits effusive thanks... no disrespect intended.

TMFD 3 working fires in 18hrs must rate an honorable mention at least...? http://larchmontgazette.com/2008/articles/20081124fires.html

I understand, but having read some of the other posts - especially the ones by ny10570 & M'Ave - I would find complying with the profanity rules impossible. Consider the wish to be the deed. Enough said.