abaduck

I'd like to just pass on a point which is NOT made from my own experience, but which I've heard from more than one of my teachers: know when to give up. There's no point in calling every department for 30 miles around when the only real difference it'll make is how long it takes the structure to burn to the ground. The example I've heard repeatedly is barn fires. Sometimes you need just enough resources to protect exposures (if any) and perhaps operate a brand patrol. From what I've heard, that's something we in the Northeast are often not very good at coming to terms with, compared with the rest of the country.

'Battenburg markings' is the term you're looking for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battenburg_markings (as in 'Battenburg cake'). I've seen quite a few rigs with this pattern in Scotland.

The Tax System - Explained With Beer Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realised that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 ( 25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. 'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!' 'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!' The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

Do many departments have 'exterior only' members? How exactly does that work? In our department, as far as I know, the only FFs that would apply to are new recruits who haven't completed FF1/FF Survival - they can still learn a lot on the scene, obviously they can't enter IDLH. If you don't have a current medical for interior firefighting you're not allowed to respond to the scene. When do you become a FF? Perhaps when the senior guys consider you one? More objectively, perhaps you're a FF when you're a probie capable of performing interior firefighting tasks under the close supervision of an officer or senior man? Does that work?

Guys, on a point of order, I'd need to look again to be sure, but I'm pretty certain I read that this response was not to a *car fire* but to an MVA *with fire*. Which puts a slightly different complexion on the notion of 'stepping it up'. No comment on the actual driving as I don't drive apparatus and haven't got my EVOC yet.

Do apartment packs count?

<sighs> I really despair when I read stories like this. What were they thinking? A FF interfering with a LE operation hasn't got the skills or the authority and is liable to end up in jail. A cop interfering in patient assessment/treatment, or fire suppression activities hasn't got the skills or the authority and is liable to end up in jail. Let's just leave the egos at home and play nice, huh? One thing for sure: we fight, we BOTH lose big-time.

Heads-up guys, another potential nasty: SIPs. Structural Insulated Panels. Polystyrene foam core sandwiched between sheets of OSB. The finished product, coming off the production line: Yes, sometimes they use isocyanurate foam for the core... guess how nasty that can be when it burns... Anyway this is how they use it: They can build complete houses out of this stuff. Walls, roofs, floors. Without a single stick of lumber, maybe just a ridge pole. The reason they use it is obvious: speed. They can literally throw up a house with this stuff and have it pretty much weathertight in 3-4 days, starting from a prepared foundation. SIP walls going up... This house is well on... note the complete lack of stick lumber, and the lack of any truss, joists or rafters in the roof. Roof on... no framing, you can see how it's just great slabs of SIPs.... Of course it's strong... but how does that glue and OSB hold up in fire? Who's come across this stuff? Anyone heard any horror stories about fire performance? Here's one you gotta love: unframed self-supporting SIP roof panels, resting on an I-beam ridge pole... Inside of one of these... SIP walls, SIP roof, SIP floor: More of this house: http://www.countryplans.com/raby.html Discuss, enjoy, worry! Mike

More: http://www.larchmontgazette.com/2009/artic...2tmfdgrant.html

Electrical: They often have pre-moulded chases which can be wired-up with the assistance of fish tape: They can also be made with custom-cut chases, per. architect plans, or chases can be cut on the jobsite: Here's some stuff on SIPs and codes: http://www.nbnnews.com/NBN/issues/2007-10-...tems/index.html Yes, they go up with minimal or no framing; the SIP panels are structural. As far as I can make out, the ends of the panels are sometimes tongued and grooved for joining primarily with glue. Another method - shown below - is to leave the foam slightly rebated, and put a piece of stick lumber between the two panels being joined; the stick is not load-bearing, it's just there to give some purchase for nailing through the OSB: Here's another nice one: spline joint, glued and nailed, and a wiring chase: Other systems use metal studs and screws, see: http://www.ibpanels.com/HOWTO/general_information.php Mike

Rank amateurs. The British Royal Air Force know exactly how to do it: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/138...mates-room.html

Interesting topic but... weren't we supposed to be getting a 'building construction photos' forum for this kind of thing? I can't see it... yet?

There is... a step in the right direction anyway. A small step... http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/trussID.htm

More on ALF vs. computers... they blamed IBM: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/29/am...nce_ibm_filing/

There's a... disconnect here. I truly do not understand this argument at any level. It's like... there's an alternative universe or something. "Dennis Thompson, an Akron, Ohio-based lawyer representing the IABPFF, said multiple-choice tests such as the one administered in New Haven are poor indicators of qualifications and historically have hurt minorities" Now it's perfectly arguable whether or not a multiple-choice test is the best way to pick people for promotion. At least it's fair on the face of it; unless someone is designing the test to favour a specific individual, or leaking the questions in advance, it's free from any possible bias, nepotism, or favouritism - which is why I suppose it's popular for civil service positions. But I have no conception of how someone - even a hired-gun lawyer - can stand up with a straight face and say that multiple-choice tests 'historically have hurt minorities'. Why??!! What's the reasoning here? That sounds like a deeply racist statement. As far as I can see, multiple-choice tests can only hurt those who either a. are lazy and don't study hard enough for the tests or b. are just too plain dumb to ever score well or c. are smart and study hard, but are just congenitally bad at taking tests So which is he saying applies disproportionately to 'minorities'? a, b, or c? I Just Don't Get It And I suspect I never will.

Dead right: "The driver of a pickup truck that collided with a train Saturday night in Patterson was found at his home yesterday morning and charged with leaving the scene of an accident, Metro-North Railroad said yesterday.Jayson Beers, 34, of Patterson also was charged with child endangerment because a 16-year-old boy was in the truck, said Metro-North spokesman Dan Brucker. Both charges are misdemeanors. Also in the truck was Gary Beers, 51, a relative of the driver who lives in the same home, Brucker said."

I don't doubt it. Doesn't explain why it should only be voluntary for their department, when it's mandatory for everyone else, which was my point!

What on earth is the thinking there? Like, NYC don't have fires? FDNY guys never get jammed up? This whole bailout rope thing started with FDNY LODDs, did it not?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...columnist_lewis (Michael Lewis, author of “Liar’s Poker,” “Moneyball” and “The Blind Side,” is a columnist for Bloomberg News. The opinions expressed are his own.) The other interesting spectacle today was the House passing this 90% retrospective tax bill. Two points: 1. It's blatantly unconstitutional; you can't retrospectively change the tax rate on money that people have already been paid, paid the tax on, and spent! 2. It's amusing watching these alleged politicians trying to 'control' or 'punish' Wall St. - it's rather like watching a flock of sheep trying to legislate against wolves. Wall St. will find approximately 58 different ways round any such laws within five minutes of Obama signing them.

No secret: http://www.larchmontfire.org/apparatus.html 91 Pierce and 93 Seagrave. "A new engine is due in the spring to replace an older engine that has already been taken out of service"

Oh yes - I did Tech just before Christmas, and they had us all in Class A suits, donning and doffing drills, wandering the drill field, doing manual dexterity tasks etc. etc. Everyone does everything - classroom and practical. Wouldn't be much of a course if you didn't!

We carry a steel hook allegedly specially-made for pulling tin ceilings. No idea if it's any good, I've yet to see it used in anger (and am in no hurry to have that change!)

Been browsing the photo sections tonight; it occurred to me that we should have a forum specifically for 'interesting' building construction photos. Yeas or Nays?

Wow... career guys and vollies in total agreement - definitely worth doing