xchief2x

Does anyone have a copy of this policy they can post?

FAST is  part of the "live burn" policy  that the County has  just released.   every Chief  should have received a copy of the policy. It is very  comprehensive. your Departments  should  take a close look at it and understand the responsibilities of the chiefs and officers  when conducting a live burn evolution at the training  center. 

"FireMedic049", I think we have worked together in the same place. Your story is so similar to mine.
As a Volunteer Firefighter for five years in a combination department, both the career and volunteer members got along great. In fact many of those career guys offered us their help in preparing for some of the upcoming test. Even a few on their off duty time.
Finally in 1975 I get the career firefighters job. But in a different city. It doesn't take me too long to find out that I entered into a War Zone. All because of the fact that I became a career firefighter.
I guess I fall into the category of a "Dinosaur Firefighter". So many things are different now.
I was able to see when females first entered into the fire service. That wasn't something that was welcomed by many members, including myself. Of course today we know that many females are doing a great job. Including some that are now Chiefs within some of our largest American cities.
I was able to see the time when the fire department responded to medical calls. Prior to that, our attitude was "We're Firefighters not Doctors". Today of course we know that the larger percentage of all calls are medical rather than fire related for most places. I have firefighter friends that are alive today because of the work that firefighter/medics did to keep them alive.
I was able to see a time when air packs were NOT a luxury or optional item, but one of mandatory equipment. We know today how important that is. But using an air pack years ago wasn't always available. And if you did get to wear one, they didn't have a warning bell telling you to leave the building. You try to suck in air and there is nothing left. Now you try to find your way out using NO AIR.
My point is that being a dinosaur of the fire service (which I am very proud of), I was able to see many improvements made. There has been many difficult hurdles conquered over the years within the fire service. But for some reason, we still just can't seem to get this career/volunteer thing figured out.

really?? nr REFUSES to go and MV REFUSES to come here. As my boss used to say, "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story".

Great topic Chief==I think that most Fire Departments should take a real close look at them selves in a mirror and see what they see. Are they stuck in the 70's or 60's or worse yet 50's. We see time after time departments buying bigger--bigger--biggest--bester things. We all realize that especially in the volunteer service there is a erosion of manpower. In the career side its do more with less-- basically it's the same thing. How do we get everyone into the 21st century is the question.. better recruitment? incentives? training? community involvement?? getting home to our loved ones is a priority --- as I say in my classes---you didn't start the fire--- you joined to help your community. you cant do that if your not trained properly. 5 points I strive for -- get there--get there safely--do your job--do your job the best you can--get home to your loved ones.
I guess the answer might be in full disclosure. I once knew a Fire Chief that every meeting he went to stated that he did not have sufficient manpower.
So Chief there is not easy answer to your question just more questions

Yes we do, but more so we owe it to ourselves to be honest with ourselves. What I mean by this is that we are the greatest obstacle to solving the problem of inadequate responses and until we can admit that truth there is little hope of progressing. Like an alcoholic the first step in fixing the problem is admitting we have one and having the willingness to do what it takes to fix it. Most can readily admit to the first part, that there's a problem, but very few can honestly say they are truly willing to do what it takes to fix it. Oh sure, many will loudly jump on the consolidation bandwagon and proclaim that this is "the answer", until that answer involves them making concessions to serve the greater good. "We must consolidate, but my agenda is more important that yours", "we must consolidate, but don't change my contract", "we must consolidate, but don't touch my apparatus", "we must consolidate but don't take my rank" and so on and so on. Sadly, egos, agendas and a warped sense of self importance makes it virtually impossible to progress out of the tradition of putting ourselves first. And make no mistake we have always put ourselves first, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The public will only get what they deserve when we put their needs above our wants....and that my friends is a tall order indeed.

Do we owe the public the truth about their fire depts. ability to handle a structure fire? What I mean by that is we ask the taxpayers for money to run the dept, yet in truth, on any given day at any given time, it takes more than THAT dept to control the situation. Forget career / volunteer bs, this is across the board. This is not about the big one or needing a tanker/tender shuttle operation, this is the room and contents, fire that your patch on your sleeve proudly says WE CAN HANDLE.
Mutual aid to cover the empty fire houses, no problem.
Why is it the neighboring taxpayers responsibility to send its tax dollar funded dept to assist with your BASIC fire.
something is wrong here, and the longer we put our heads in the sand......................

Bottom of Da Hill give it a rest already! You are just making yourself look even more and more clueless. No one agrees with you here (how can you not see that?), no one with any education will agree with you here, and no one wants to read any more of your posts trying to hijack and ruin this thread with your personally biased, absurd claims of favoritism. I'm starting to suspect you're just upset your department wasn't called. Again, wrong incident, wrong thread, and wrong time to be making such stupid claims.

Bottom of Da Hill, on 03 Feb 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:
why stand by fd units from ossining isnt that a little far away?maybe armonk or west harrison white plains ?
Bottom of Da Hill, on 04 Feb 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:
or maybe just maybe the dispatcher is a member of said FD? thats what it is?you have fairview hartsdale sleepyhollow tarrytown just a few miles away.favoritism with few dispatchers i noticed.
Bottom of Da Hill, on 04 Feb 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:
i know all about mutual aid very well and i agree with you to a point.but there is favoritism.
Bottom of Da Hill, on 04 Feb 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:
the grand scheme should get what you need there sooner then later kinda like a fast team? thats my experience tells me its not a parade.get what you need ASAP.i dont think the dispatchers should have that kind of power to show favoritism to the dept they belong to.
Well all the departments you listed including Ossining are a 12-15 minute drive to Valhalla's station. It's not about speed and who is closest for relocations, it's how to balance all of the resources in the county. A relocation is not an emergency per se. It is better to skip over several departments so that wide gaps in coverage aren't created in the process. Hawthorne, Valhalla, North White Plains, Elmsford, Thornwood, and Briarcliff had units committed to this job during rush hour. Leaving TFD, SHFD, PHFD, WHFD, AFD, untouched meant that whichever company relocated to VFD would have had a full complement of second due departments nearby available to respond to another major incident.
You're hung up on Ossining but the fact of the matter is that they've got a half dozen engines two trucks rescue and support equipment plus a lot of manpower. I'd like you to name a major job North of White Plains from the past 20 years that they haven't been on or relocated for. An 3 man engine or 1 man truck from Hartsdale on a relocate... That's just silly. If I was Greenville, Hartsdale, or Fairview I'd decline the request for a relocate knowing that if have to call back manpower to cover my first due.
The box was filled appropriately and just because a few Ossining members work for or have previously worked for 60 control does not indicate favoritism. If it's big and in northern Westchester you can be sure Ossining, Bedford Hills, and/or Yorktown are going to be part of the job.

Stop harping on your "favoritism" claims already. No one agrees with you. Your post is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. You have no idea what you are talking about and nothing to back it up. My guess is you just have an unrelated bone to pick and this is a perfect opportunity for you. Wrong situation to do that.

What proof do you have to support this statement?

Based on some of these posts, I can't help but wonder if some of you were dropped on your heads as babies. What is even more concerning is how little some people know, armchair quarterback and jump to conclusions.
I have a fairly good amount of training regarding trains and train emergencies. I have - what I believe - is a wealth of knowledge of the fire service, including resources in this county and around us. I also have responded to and run a handful of incidents involving mass-casualties.
I have never - nor has 99.5% of you - had an incident like this. The people running it did a TOP NOTCH JOB, and the fact that some of you are sitting back, typing away and criticizing any decisions of the Incident Commander or any others at this incident just fortifies why I have little faith that we can ever become better as a county. Some of you posting here are officers, past officers or - God help us - aspiring officers in your respective agencies. As the Maitre D' in Ferris Bueller's Day off said, "I weep for the future."
/rant
And for the record, this is me, as a person, voicing my opinion which has no reflection of any affiliation I have or have had in the past.

6 people lost their lives and others injured and this is what's bothering you? Get over it. Stop with the favoritism nonsense and the boo-hoo why didn't they call X, Y or Z.
Resources were called as needed during what I could only imagine to be a chaotic and overwhelming scene.

How about posting the numbers that mean something; i.e. Response times, # of INTERIOR FFs per call, etc?

09:10 - Montrose dispatched with Buchanan & Verplanck to standby in own HQ.
09:16 - 2279 on scene with 10-75 and Engine from VAFD. 2276 on scene, fully involved, exterior attack only.
09:17 - Croton FAST, Buchanan U12, CCVAC, 35M2, Battalion 10 dispatched.
09:18 - Verplanck Engine to Montrose HQ.
09:21 - E225 on location.
09:23 - 2089, E119 responding.
09:27 - Bat 10, 2089, E119 on location.
09:37 - Bat 10 reports 2 1/2 story balloon frame, 3 L/S/O, stretching a 4th line.
10:00 - C&O Zone 4 dispatched.
10:12 - Bat 10 reported heavy fire on 2nd & 3rd floors, Command going exterior again.
10:20 - Command putting Croton to work, requesting Ossining FAST as relief.
10:32 - Bat 10 requesting 2 additional Engine companies to scene. E161 & E257 dispatched.
10:41 - 2332, E98, U51 responding.
10:50 - OFD FAST on location.
10:55 - Command reports exterior attack again. Using TL8 aerial stream.
10:56 - E257 responding.
11:12 - E161 on Laurel Hill Road, hand-stretching 5" to feed TL8.
12:17 - Bat 10 reports exterior operations resuming.
12:58 - Ossining E99 to scene for manpower.
13:17 - E99 responding.
13:15 - Interior ops resuming, Croton crews to 2nd, 3rd floor and porch roof.
13:28 - E99 on scene.
13:55 - 1 MOS to hospital - minor injuries.
14:05 - Bat 17 dispatched for relief.
14:30 - E119, E225, OFD FAST in service.
15:12 - E257 in service.
15:15 - Millwood L52 requested to scene to hit hot spots from driveway.
17:40 - Situation under control.
18:45 - All units in service.

Today in New Rochelle the " I Can't Breath" rally and march was postponed. I'll tell you can't breath---Those two cops in Brooklyn

Glad to see there will be a Westchester County Convention again. Unfortunately, be prepared for all the negative comments about parades and social events.......

Here's the BS of the problem....volunteer FF's tend to have significantly less training than our career counter parts. There are many reasons why we don't, such as a lack of time because most of us have full time jobs that require us to show up to earn a salary, or families that we can't leave behind over small incidents that otherwise wouldn't affect the most of us. It's a long list, but I don't have the time to waste to list you all the reasons. The matter of the fact is that vollies don't get enough training, for every reason. I would love to take more classes and be "Superman," but I realize that I have far more important things to do, like work!
In a perfect world we would all be trained to the same level. Unfortunately, it's not possible and never will be. The scheme of life just doesn't allow it, but it will always allow that rift between vollie and career FF's.
Now, I'm going to say something really mean, Bottom of Da Hill, and you're going to have to suck it up and take it like a man...You need to stop acting like you're tough sh!t. You're not. The brotherhood of the fire service is a tight knit community, and it's a small world. You just can't go around bashing every body. I speak from experience. I used to shoot my mouth off, too. But, I learned. Now it's your turn.
Alright, back to the original post......I'm guessing you're looking for answers from the volunteer side?? This is a tough question, mainly because every department has their own rules and regulations about the issue. Heck, some departments DON"T have rules or training standards (I unfortunately know of some). Looking at it from a broad stand point, most volunteer departments say FF1 is the basis to become interior, and Fire Officer 1 is needed for company officers. I'm not going to quote my department's policies because I can't find the binder with the by-laws and SOP's, but I can guarantee you that specific classes are required and some point throughout your tenure (I will elaborate once I find the binder lol).
Keep in mind that OFPC and NFPA have their suggestions/requirements, and most of that information is locatable through their respective websites and the wonderful world of Google. Your department may even have copies of the appropriate documents to read through, and your current officers should know where they are located in your fire house.
I do like your question, and I will start looking for more information to help you come to an answer that you're looking for. PM me if I forget to repost.

Are you insinuating that career FFs only work with Vol FFs in Westchester? Or just the opposite? Either way, your response is vague and quite misleading.
As much as I read guys crying that the career guys bash the Vollies, it seems as though there are plenty of pot stirrers on the volunteer side as well.
I am unfortunately not surprised....

I am not really sure of the actual radio call times ins, BUT actually Tanker 15 was first on the scene, dropping a supply line at the base of the driveway and pulling up to the house. Tanker10 then remained on the road and set up a nursing operation in case water was needed... Along with Millwood's next due engine.
Before someone starts questioning...

Thanks Billy. Croton FD is always a great help, easy to work with and gets on scene fast. You ( Tanker 10 ) probably could have snuck ahead of our Tanker 15 at the bottom of Allapartus but didn't.
Both Tankers really rolled up together - perfect - one in the driveway and one on the road.
Thanks again for all your help.
Greg ( 2251 )

wow really!!! so I guess you have no problem being teamed up with someone who CANT do this and he/she is your interior partner.
How did the instructors become the enemy in your mind?

Yes, in Westchester all of the CFIs and SFIs can.
And any person who cannot pass this simple series of job related tasks should not be allowed in the fire service. Period.

Bad Box are you a cop? I don't think you are aware of what ESU cops do. They are not patrol cops. They are highly trained cops who can respond to EVERYTHING! As in every major scale emergency. From EDP who is out of control to a jumper hangin from the tallest structure. Bomb scares, hazmat jobs active shooter, terrorist attacks and hostages. The list goes on. They are trained for it all and have the tools to get everyone one of those jobs done. Yes 2 cops ride in that large rig but that rig is met by the smaller ESU trucks and suddenly 6-8 cops are on scene in minutes with a large tool box. If a large scale incident happens this truck will allow extra guys to jump in and gear up. Your post insults law enforcement especially ESU cops who go through one hell of a test to get in that unit and have to be sharp in many aspects of aw enforcement. When a cop is in trouble who do we call? ESU. Who comes after them? No one. There is no one after ESU.