wraftery

An uncalled-for slap at the old guys. We Old Guys yanked out the reels maybe 30 years ago because they were useless in our eyes. The empty space that was created then housed a generator. Now look at who started this thread: a young proponent of booster lines.

I never got excited over an audio transmission to "expedite." If you simply take it as a "Heads up on the incident" you are not speeding up or taking any chances, no problem.

Here's some logic that is similar to the pro-booster reel logic that I've been seeing in this thread. We should also buy a few steamers and horse teams. You never know if there will be another gasoline shortage. Of course we would have to add a chemical engine to our arsenal because it takes a while to build up a head of steam.

I find it hard to believe the booster vs.1 3/4 argument is still alive and well. Try a timed race between a booster line and a 1 3/......AAAH, never mind. If you haven't figured it out by now, I probably can't convince you.

Get rid of that Explorer/Junior stuff on your profile. With that kind of logic, you should be a Chief too!

Now that we're all friends, could someone just click and like this post? It doesn't matter whether you are a cop, FF,EMT,man, woman, old , young, or even a dog, if he can hit the like button.. You see, I now have 899 points and would really like to hit 900 by the end of the day. Also, if you see I hit 900, don't hit the like button because I have achieved my goal and I don't know if EMT-Brave has a procedure for removing points that weren't earned. Although, if you really liked this stupid post, I guess you would have to hit the like button. But then, how would I know if you really like this post or are just throwing points at me because I only needed one point. See? It isn't easy being a Chief and making these decisions.

No malice intended towards cops. I was just giving an example of how heroism is perceived. My point was that a FF who made a difficult search which turned out negative worked harder than the perceived "hero" that made a quick grab at the front door. There may be differences in personality between cops and FFs. I would not even consider myself being a cop. I think I can usually predict how a fire is going to act. I never can predict how a person is going to act. For this, I salute you guys. About a year ago, I passed a female cop who had a person pulled over. The person was big and tough looking and was sitting in the drivers seat with his feet hanging out the door. The cop, a lefty, had her hand on her gun and her knees slightly bent. Her posturing gave me the impression that she was concerned with this guy, so I turned down the next street and called 911 to make sure she had backup. We are, after all, brothers in blue.

The title of this thread is "Hero or Potential Victim." In my opinion, if there is a hero, there has to be a potential victim. There has to be an extreme danger that a hero must risk to save a life. But also, a hero must be aware of this danger and understand that there is a potential of him being severely injured before he can be called a hero. A person who is oblivious to the danger to himself is not a hero. He simply "lucked out." Those of us who have badges and wear uniforms are expected to be heroes by the public. They believe that it is our job. It is not. Read the oath we took. It says we must uphold the Constitution, obey the department's Rules and Regs, follow orders and so on. We never took an oath that says we must put ourselves in danger or risk our lives to make a rescue. We do that because of who we are within ourselves Not all cops and firefighters are heroes. There are many slackers out there. I think, on the other hand, that among the people on our jobs , the majority are potential heroes. The just haven't been faced with the rare situation that a moral decision has to be made that will differentiate the man from the hero. The same can be said of people who are not in emergency services. That being said, think about this: If a Firefighter enters a burning house and makes a rescue just inside the front door he is said to be a hero. If a Firefighter makes a complete search of the same burning house and the search turns up no one, he was just doing his job.

Do some research before you jump on the pyrolance bandwagon. The guy in the infomercial sounds a lot like an old film by Lloyd Layman touting the water absorption rate of fog lines. That started the greatest debate ever among fire people. And, I think it was Hahn who had a 700psi fog system for brush fires and places without adequate water supplies. All these items (High pressure systems, Fog lines, and now Pyrolance) work well in confined spaces because the steam doesn't leave the space and is able to absorb its full amount of btu's. All these boons to the fire service last a little while and then become museum pieces, never to be used again. Only a combination of two things has consistently proven itself to be an effective firefighting system over the course of time: Firefighters and Water. The powers that be are already taking away our firefighters. Watch out boys, the next thing they will want to get rid of are our fire hydrants, selling them for scrap.

Right on, Bnechis! The alarm system is doing its job and efficiently transmitting a timely alarm. There should be no penalty for this alarm. It is no different tan a person smelling smoke and calling 911. The detector may have very well prevented a larger fire. As for Mrs. Smith, I've had her pies and they aren't bad, but they do tend to spill over onto the cookie sheet and occasionally make enough smoke to set off detectors. If she activates her alarms over and over she need not be fined. The punishment should fit the crime. She should be sentenced to "Take Out" fdr 30 days on her first offense.

Steps in correcting repeat false alarms (malfunctions) from a premise: 1. Advise responsible party to correct malfunction. 2. If not corrected issue Notice of Violation with a specific date by which it must be corrected 3. If not corrected, issue Summons or Appearance Ticket 4. Court should order a fine and also correction of the malfunction 5. If not corrected, it is up to Court to say that the party is in Contempt of Court and issue arrest warrant

If I might add to Helicoppers post, the Accountability person is the Resource Unit Leader (RUL) under the ICS. But remember that if the Resource Unit has not been established by the IC, the RUL's function lies with the IC. It means that as IC you can 1. Do accounting yourself 2. Delegate the function to an assistant such as your aide (But not to the Safety Officer) and be aware that the accounting in this case still lies with the IC under ICS. or 3. Establish the Resource unit and in doing this, he can also account for apparatus on scene, on standby, in staging. The RUL is also supposed to anticipate the need for future resources. Good deal, eh? Don't just take the ICS courses, use the information you got in the course to your advantage. It is a shame that the Feds got rid of the National Fire Academy's ICS course that was geared for firefighting. The departments that took that course seem to do better at ICS than the ones that were introduced to ICS when things switched to the generic, all hazards version.

Somebody is mixed up RIT, FAST, and MAT are the same thing. They are required by OSHA if employees (that's all of us, paid or vol) are in an ILDH atmosphere, notice I didn't say structure. Fast is a NYC term RIT is from down south, and MAT is from somebody else. Their job is the same, with no difference in size and they are not waiting for FAST to show up I am asking the guys who are very familiar with the concepts I have mentioned, please reply and back me up before this Faux pas goes viral

While we are on the subject, here's another curve ball. One of the most challenging times for accountability is change of shifts. If your department allows early reliefs or man-for-man reliefs, are the run lists being updated when the incoming man is in and the outgoing man is out. I don't know about any other officers but I was a stickler on this. All accounting must be changed...the run list on the door, the chalkboard riding list, the station log, the personnel and everyplace else that shows you are present or gone. Ever hear at change of shifts "Sounds like we have something...I'll take a ride with you." Is that man accounted for? Just like RIT or FAST. Accountability has to be in place throughout the incident.

See ? All different systems. . You made my point. Any system works within your own dept. How about on mutual aid? Not mutual.aid with your surrounding dept you work with them all time. Go to somebody's job a bit further away. It will stop working A state system would be nice. A national system would be better A Westchester system would only be a dream

Good post, Barry. It seemed to me that in NY, we used the "WFYB" system...Whatever floats your boat. There is a myriad of systems in Westchester, each of which which may work well within your own department. However, Westchester is comprised of 56 departments, none of which can handle the really-really big one by themselves. Therefore there is a lot of mutual aid among all of Westchester. In my many times as IC in an incident requiring outside departments, I have been presented with tags, rings, riding lists, Velcro icons, and every type of list known to man. I know that you have been in the same situation yourself. It doesn't matter as much what system is used but that the SAME system is used across the board. Here in the Hampton Roads area the Passport system (a commercial product) seems to be the preferred system and is used well from what I hear on the radio. (White Plains uses passport also) These are not small departments. Chesapeake has a staff of about 250, Virginia Beach 450. Mutual aid is obviously not used as often as Westchester, but it seems to go smoothly when it is used. If you are totally disgusted with the way things are in Westchester, try using the US Forest Service "T-card" system. It may be old, but it works. When a company shows up you give them a card to fill out. You then put the card where it belongs in your canvas pouch where it belongs (Staging...search...etc). It doesn't solve the problem when your company goes out-of-town, but at least you gave him names and company that he can put in a pile with his rings and tags and hopefully when the excrement hits the rotary ventilator, he may find you in the pine of stuff on his folding table

Look at the rear metalwork... all bent. Somebody wasn't told (or forgot) that you can't go up Charlotte from East Hartsdale like the Engines. You have to go around.

Carbon Tet is: A good parts cleaner An excellent dry cleaning solution A wonderful stain remover AND, UNFORTUNATELY, A CARCINOGEN There lies your problem, Tim. Check with your local Hazmat guys. I don't even know if it is taken on those household Hazmat turn-in days. Sorry I wasn't more help

Probably Carbon Tet and probably WWII, judging by the olive drab color and paper label. If you can see the label, see if it says anything like Civil Defense on it. During WWII, they had civilians called Fire Wardens. Their job was to fight fires in the event of an incendiary attack on America. Some were issued extinguishers and those extinguishers varied from buckets of sand to actual extinguishers. Also, is it wider at the top than at the Bottom? Then it is probably what I described above

Terrorist Bashers...now there's a new concept

What would Islam do if it were an American who committed a terrorist act in a Muslim Country? I think it would look something like: Hang him by his feet from a crane in a public place, light him on fire and mail the video to Al-Jazeera. Never Forget

That's what I picture a combined Westchester FD to look like 1 Chief instead of 8, but the 7 that are left are probably needed just because the dept is bigger. For example, the Resource Management Leader now has to order say 1000 sets of turnouts instead of the old 150. Instead of one training officer you now need a Trailing Staff Martin; What is the official name of Scotland's new merged fire brigade?

To paraphrase your statement: The things that aren't being accomplished now are what's really amazing.

There's a lot of good information in this thread. I hope the people who have "seen" it are reading it and not just "passing through"

I'm glad you mentioned "time" in your post. Time of day has a great bearing on forming your strategy. But it's also a great example of why instructors must keep up with the times and not rest on their old material. Try these training questions for example on for size. I used a Target store because they .are all fairly big and almost everyone as been inside one. You arrive for an automatic alarm in a Target store at 1100 on a Saturday. In your size-up what bearing does time of day have on your strategy? Answer: Many people probably in the store. They must be evacuated and a search done asap You arrive for an automatic alarm in a Target store at 0200 on a Saturday. In your size-up what bearing does time of day have on your strategy? Old Answer: Store closed, no life hazard. New Answer: There are very likely night shift people inside. There are cleaners, stockers, repairmen, likely to be in the building. Clues might be cars in the parking lot, workmen's trucks, some lights on in store, etc