wraftery

I think this fits this thread better than the other Irene thread so I copied it here. I hope it is OK with our Monitor staff. Dinosaur, on Today, 12:19 PM, said: Seriously? You never went to exterior or defensive operations? Yes, we go to fires and cops chase bad guys with guns, etc. etc. That doesn't mean you ignore the unique hazards of a situation like Irene and try to fight tropical storm force winds and torrential rain to do the job. No, it's not safe but we try to make it as safe as possible. Isn't that why turnout gear and other PPE has evolved so much? If you were still working would you wear rubber turnout coats and no SCBA because "they called us". Any a$$ can't work in a hurricane, FF or otherwise. Be realistic and be smart. Don't take unnecessary chances because "we're the FD". Thanks, Dinosaur. I knew someone would come up with the response I knew would come. Correctly, we should size-up and then do a risk/benefit analysis. Using that analysis we come up with an acceptable risk for that situation. Our action might be to retreat, go defensive, go offensive, make the scene safe, deal with the scene even though you can get hurt, etc. but the decision usually involves some kind of acceptable risk. Look now at OSHA like a lawyer would: 29 U.S.C. § 654, 5(a)1: Each employer shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees. That wording doesn't leave us any leeway whatsoever. If you do anything except leave you will probably be hung in any hearing,citing the aforementioned. Now look at the CT guidelines from Mikeinet: 4. Prior to sustained wind speeds reaching 50 mph, or wind gusts over 65 mph, any chief officer or company officer who feels the situations encountered are sufficiently dangerous to the safety of personnel may cease operations and return to quarters. The officer must advise the incident commander and the dispatch center. 5. For the safety of the members, the fire department should discontinue response to all fire/EMS calls when sustained wind speeds reach 50 mph or wind gusts are over 65 mph. When the order to cease response is given due to hazardous wind conditions: • Units responding to or on the scene of an emergency shall continue their work until completed, at which time the units will return to their assigned stations. • Units out of station, but not on a call, should return to their stations as soon as possible This gives you guidance for situations plus the ability to make decisions based on the specific situation. Look at the use of the words "Shall" and "should". I can live with the CT document, but I think the Osha lawyer can shoot a hundred holes in the document and hang you anyway. The study of fire is a science...firefighting is an art. Stay Safe

29 U.S.C. § 654, 5(a)1: Each employer shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees." Read it 3 times.... Does that include going to fires? If not, why not? One day we will be able to pick and choose what we will or will not go out the door for. Is the scene safe?" This line is heard in almost every training session. No, it's not safe; thats why they called us! If it were safe, any a$$ could take care of it.

From Virginia Beach area: Mandatory evacuations for most of the Outer banks starting 0800 Fri including residents. (Visitor evac was Thur.) Mandatory evac for Sandbridge (a barrier island, part of Va Beach) it sounds like it will also include VBFD Sta 17 One of my sons is working already, the other is recalled as of 0001 Fri

Nevermind the hurricane! Mayday cancelled...missing member accounted for. Welcome back, Georgie! For the hurricane, EFDCAPT115 will recon from Florida, I'll recon from VA. I ran the generator, stocked the fridge. I've got wives and kids. VBFD put out a "Get ready for recall" notice.

Anyone ever watch the submarine races at the lagoon(Shore Rd. just over the Bronx line)?

Firediver; He may be right. They might belong to Con Ed. But stay on the safe side. Don't remove the Reynolds Wrap until I can confirm and get back to you.

Mike: Every time you leave the house, cover everything between your navel and your kneecaps with Reynolds Wrap. It disables their ability to track you.

I think he city should tax them and make a few bucks. There may be a city ordinance on them already.

and......... Thank you Cap, did you ever wonder how many of these dog and pony show people that claim to be the be-all, know-alls have actually spent time putting out fires? Or is it "Let's form a committee and we can claim it all as a business expense"? Sometimes it's like a cult: The self-appointed "reverend" yells "Safety!" or "Progress," and half the fire service drinks the KoolAid. Remember the old saying: A jackass is a racehorse developed by a committee.

Yes. I went to college with those guys. That's who I learned the trade from. Even the Bronx doesn't have the fires it used to. And Seth, When you leave the job, you leave a lot behind. If they left it in a closet or dropped it in the dumpster, so be it. If they use what I left and built upon it, even better. Balls 'n' brains...not necessarily in that order.

Don't get me wrong. Remember I said it works, but water is cheaper and better if you have a good water supply. That being said... Try this at home: Take a clean coffee cup and fill it with water. Sprinkle black pepper over the top of the water. (The coffee cup is just to give you a white background so you can see the pepper) Now take the tip of your index finger and just touch it to a little dish detergent. Take that finger and barely touch the surface of the water in the coffee cup and watch what happens to the pepper. You just broke the surface tension of the water. No magic potions, just soap. Go ahead and try the penetration thing when overhauling and see how you make out. Betcha still want to pick apart the hidden spces and look. PS Look at the rig covered with CAFoam in one of the replies above. I bet that engine and everything on it will give off suds for a month of washes. I believe the CAFS manufacturers strongly tell you that all the product must be thoroughly cleaned from both CAFS systems and other equipment. OK Where's the Proby? I've got a job for him.

I said that in my first sentence.

I'll venture a guess that although CAFS worked fine for rural places where water nust be tanked or shuttled, it is sismply not cost effective in a place like Boston where water is cheap, unlimited, and piped to the nearest streetcorner for you. In my time I have seen a plethera of extinguishing agents come and go, not because they didn't work, but because after all is said and done, they didn't work as well as water. There was rapid water, slippery water, penetrating foam, high expansion foam (Now there'e a classic you were able to jump into this 8 foot layer of foam and breathe by breaking bubbles in front of your face. I tried it...yes you could breathe, but I tasted soap for three days). All were sold on the premises that it uses Less Water and Less Manpower. "Sure, it's expensive, but just think...Less Water and Less Manpower!) SO WHAT? I don't know about you, but I always felt that Water and Manpower were a hell of a good combination for putting fires out. And if the fire isn't going out, what do you need? More Water and More manpower. Oh yes, the penetrating quality of these agents. "Time is saved in overhaul because the agent finds the hidden fire without you having to pick things apart to look." I never wanted a REKINDLE, so even though the salesman's magic potion was penetrating and extinguishing hidden fire, I never left a job without making sure all hidden fire was out, And that means looking and wetting and overhauling. We are begging for more manpower on the job,but we are buying things like CAFS on the premise that we can reduce manpower using the salesman's magic juice. Let's stick with the begging instead of buying systems that are basically soapsuds and club soda at a great cost.

Does a FF NEED a degree? To be an officer, probably, just for teaching/writing skills and the like. For someone who wants to get into the Hazmat field, a degree in chemistry would certainly be useful. But for a FF? I say maybe...maybe not. This thread talked about Doctors, Lawyers, Bill Gates, and so on. Then there are Rocket Scientists, Neursurgeons, and other genuses out there. Could any of them be FFs? Who do they call when they are scared, sick, have a basement full of water, have a tree through their house, mixed some chemicals together and now they are choking, or their house is filling with smoke? Right, they call 911 because somebody will be there in five minutes and will have a solution to their problem. Does he need a degree? No. A good FF needs the ability to stuff volumes upon volumes about everything into his back pocket. Then, at two o'clock in the morning, getting up out of a sound sleep be able to reach into that back pocket, pull out the correct solution for the caller's problem. So, Chiefs, If you meet up with a guy that wants a job and has the ability I just described, don't ask him if he has a degree. Just hire him.

Retired or not Cap, you know me well enough to know I never liked wadng thruogh bull ka ka so I just skip those posts.

I believe NIMS says to use "Common terminology" as opposed to "Plain English"/"Plain language." They are entirely different. You must be using NIMS if you want to communicate with the feds and use their resouces and get some money after a disaster. This is especially important for the Southern Westchester Special Operations Task Force for example. Just look at the postings above to see how Westchester's Communications is a fiasco. Look at how many posters showed how they are contributing to the fiasco and blame it on the other guy. Maybe NRFD needs training in first-on-scene reporting and how important it is to use those key words like "Working Fire." Maybe 60-Control could use a little training on clarifying what messages mean by asking questions. Try a radio conversation like the following as an example: "E-1 to Dispatch, On-scene and we got trouble. It's blowing out on the first floor. We're pulling a deuce and a half." "Dispatch to E-1, are you declaring this Working Fire?" (E-1) "10-4" "Dispatch receives...Working Fire." I think everybody understood what E-1 had even though it was poor procedure. (But it was better than conflicting 10 Codes) Time to stop defending your system, guys, it doesn't work. It's time to get in step with the rest of the country.

Sometimes I knew some history that enhanced the Doctors, so no cake was needed. For example: Where did they make those yellow CD Geiger counters?

If there are too many cops on the Hudson, We could send the "extras" to Washington DC to relieve the FF's who are watching the hi-crime areas. Now we can put the DC FF's back in ambulances where some think they belong. Now we can send those ambulances to the Hudson River to handle he rise in boating accidents caused by the diminished police presence. (Ha! You thought Barak Obama was the only one who could come up with plans like this.)

If you get a USCG Auxiliary inspection and display the sticker on your windshield, the local cops would probably leave you alone. That depends if the stop is a safety check or a sobriety checkpoint.

And could this sign indicate a suspicious fire?

Ah, yes, the salute; another tradition that has almost gone by the wayside. It is a sign of respect given between professionals in the military and paramilitary organizations. Thanks for the salute, Lieu and I return the salute. Did you know that long before ICS came to be the command protocal, a transfer of incident command occurred between the "Fireground Commander" and an arriving superior officer? After the "Watcha got/What are you doin" conversation, a salute indicated the exact point that command was transferred. I am putting my helmet on now, so I don't get hurt by the salvos that may be fired at me by the "Saluting is a stupid tradition" supporters. I just hope that the 5,000 or more attendees at Firefighters funerals really mean that salute and are not just going through the motions.

Rescue by Virginia Beach Teck Rescue at al http://firerescuetv.com/page.asp?cs=31&catid=628&id=1604

Every rig has a 55 gal drum of SPF 30 and a 4 inch paint brush. If you look at their pictures of extrications, etc, you will see that they are always wearing their Joe Cool Designer Safety glasses. That's their authorized eye protection.

Once this job is in your blood, it's there for the rest of your life. In fact, it is often passed on to your children. Good job, brother.

Actual response time starts when the fire is discovered, not when it is received by a PSAP. The problem is that we can't document this time. We have all seen videos of many people watching a fire grow but nobody makes the call to initiate the response process. How long did it take for the plumber, for example, to attempt to put the fire out before dialing 911? Add this to the time on ouur side of the time line ( also including getting off the rig and walking up 4 floors or so)and you will be surprised at the true time it takes for the first drop of water to flow.