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Floor collapse. Tough day for the families, BFD, and all brothers around the country who feel the pain. Rest in Peace Brothers. http://news.aol.com/article/two-buffalo-fi...in-floor/636308 http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/a...39&id=65090

Isn't that a "gazinta"?

I thought this boat looked familiar; yes indeed that's the baby the Coast Guard uses down here to patrol the intercoastal waterway (with the addition of a 50 calliber MG mounted right out on the bow). Gorgeous boat, safe travels to the JCPD Marine Unit K.

I think retired brother Magro was responsible for the sticker, thanks for bringing back that memory! I know they used the Brockway up at Fire Control as a support vehicle for a number of years; after that I don't know. Thank you Seth, that explains A LOT. I ride a Harley now in my retirement in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. The same rules apply on the bike as do when behind the wheel of those rigs; I gotta check EVERY intersection, make sure cars are stopped/slowing to a stop, EVEN if I have the right of way. Part of the system I've developed since I drove tractor-trailers on Long Island many years ago, and still use today on the Harley, is to actually keep an eye on what/where the other driver IS LOOKING AT. This can be very useful information:) There might be bad drivers in Austin; you should see some of the hideous driving that goes on here at the beach. When you're heading up The Kings Highway, you can almost predict where the fender-benders are going to be; as they tend to re-occur over and over at the same intersections. Just like Chauffering a rig, when you're on a bike you CANNOT make a mistake; or the results can be tragic. The old time Anchor Motor Freight truck driver that tought/helped me get my Class A drivers licence when I was 18 gave me this advice; If you going to crash and only have a choice between crashing your tractor-trailer into a vehicle, or running it off the road into a rock wall and certain death; choose the latter. You'll be better off than trying to live the nightmare of vehicular homicide charges you'll probably be charged with, your life is ruined anyway, so choose the rocks. Disclaimer: I am only conveying an old conversation with an old, experienced truck driver at "Putnam Professional School of Driving" from 1980. I am NOT advocating fire apparatus operators "aim for rock walls." Sometimes with the brothers you have to make sure your point is clear right? ~Regards

You sound like the kind of Chauffer that gets your company to alarms safely and God Bless you for that; it's a huge responsibility. Being cautious is The Name Of The Game is it not? Now you take your rig (honestly I have no idea where you work bro) and roll down or up an Avenue in Manhattan right? And you can see thirty blocks ahead of you fire blowing out of three windows in an OMD at 0300 hrs. And you get stopped at EVERY SINGLE LIGHT leading up to the fire. Apparently there are no "roll through clauses" regarding clear interesections (that I read in the policy highlights sighted) in Austin. IMHO this is ridiculous. I'm very happy that this Chief has a resume longer than any brother could ever have 5 year bands on his/her Class A. But where is the "common sense" balance, and if it is "balanced" why is the union gripping loudly about it? Now don't everybody start groaning when I say I drove a '55 LaFrance pumper, standard shift gas motor, a couple of Seagrave Aerials, a Brockway Rescue, and numerous other Mack pumpers in my career. I got those rigs to the scene safely, appropriately and then went to work in an undermanned fire attack. And I drove them by myself; no officer to help me out, just like many of the IAFF members in Westchester are STILL forced to do. I never crashed a firetruck, and the vast majority of firemen in here can say the same exact thing I just said; just change the rigs and insert those you drove/drive. I guess If it ain't broke don't fix it works here. It might have something to do with liability; they institute the policy and start blaming all the Chauffers for ANYTHING. No liabilty to the City of course, wave that policy. ~Stay safe.

So easy to put toward the back of your mind the dangerous missions being conducted daily by our great armed forces. Keep all of them in your hearts and prayers. Remember, even though this accident occured in Colorado, the sh!t truly hit the fan after 9-11. It started on our home turf. Many of these young men and women fighting and dying today, enlisted after 9-11 to defend this country, and bring it to the jihadis. And bring it they have. ~Never Forget. http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13167534 This is an article about a Marine from Queens (born in Jamaica Queens), lived in Floral Park, who was recently KIA in Afghanistan, after two tours of duty in Iraq. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/0..._in_afghan.html

Sure that's a great policy she'll see. God forbid it's her husband and kids trapped in a burning home, or someone elses, but now the rigs have to be "politically correct" like everything else. I'm also quite sure this Chief has much more knowledge than the Uniform Traffic Code of The State of Texas which states firetrucks are allowed to do what they are supposed to; get your @ss to the fire, maybe make a grab and a good stop. You (and the Chief) think stopping and starting a 60,000+ lb. firetruck at every traffic light won't have an effect on response times? How may rigs have you driven brother? How many rigs had the Chief driven? Yes, accidents happen. I think the number is over 40,000 people die every year in automobile accidents. The firetruck accidents quoted here are absolute tragedys, no doubt. But when taken in the context of tens of thousands of firetrucks (my best guesstimate) responding every day across the country; wouldn't you agree that's not a bad percentage? I would put my faith in a good Chauffeur and Officer in the front seat, over any "PC" document being written by an obviously "PC" Chief ANYDAY PERIOD. Edit: for spelling

Amazing work.

I'm glad you LE guys took care of responding to that nonsense. I had to reread it 5 or 6 times to try and figure out what the h@ll that post was about. I'm still waiting as well for the link to the article by the way.

Chris, I wrote this; "Now people can say "it's the towns' or "it's the County" that's the culprit; I have no opinion other than to say we have one additional layer of gov't here in NY. This is a contributing factor for how and why things can move slowly, or not at all in Westchester." I'm not placing the blame for anything with the County brother. The Chief started off the thread complimenting the County. I have no arguement with that, nor with anything you've said about consolidation of lower levels of gov't. When I said we have one additional layer of gov't, comparing it to Ct. in this case, we could say the additional layer is the multiple school districts, the fire districts, or the (how many is it) 56 Police Depts. in the County, etc. I don't necessarily think the County is "the big bad gov't". ~Thanks Edit: I really didn't want to take the thread off topic, but Chris you're a good man, I think you just took this comment wrong that's all.

It really isn't that strange when you consider the dysfunction in Westchester County comes from having an extra layer of gov't. Now people can say "it's the towns' or "it's the County" that's the culprit; I have no opinion other than to say we have one additional layer of gov't here in NY. This is a contributing factor for how and why things can move slowly, or not at all in Westchester. Now, take a look at WPFD. There was just a thread in here about "congrats to WPFD for reaching ISO 1 status". Things like the foam trailer, and the ISO 1 rating are obviously a reflection on todays' Commanders in the fire service. These folks know their stuff; and if gov't isn't getting it's act in order, it does not prevent a smart Commander of an emergency service from fulfilling his/her educationial aspirations within the field of knowledge in their emergency service. Once again, I gotta take my hat off; this time to the leadership of WPFD; that includes Chiefs, Officers, Firefighters, and Union Officials. Without all of their cooperation, they wouldn't be moving White Plains straight ahead at Warp Factor One Sulu. ~Stay safe brothers Edit: I remember when I got on the job, WPFD was looked at as kind of a messed up place; a lot of infighting, they lost a brother in a job LODD, I think cutbacks of companies not running when manpower was down due to injury, some kind of change in the leadership structure wihin the City, etc. You've come a long way. Plus you have all those high-rises now, like NR & Y. It's real.

PS: Can I nominate nfd2004's story about his pop for "Post of the Week"?

I'm posting to bring this thread back up to the top; where IMHO it belongs. nfd2004, you have shared so much with this board; the thread of old photos (with the big time help of R1E) but this story is one of true Americana, and the American fire service; what it has meant to so many generations of young men since they were boys. The HUMANITY that our fire service has brought to our great country. This story in particular, honestly could be a wonderful article in a fire related publication. IMHO we who are retired, never stop having things to offer to the brothers. With the time and reflection of retirement, comes the unbelieveable feeling of gratitude to such a marvelous way to have spent a career; even thinking back to those tours where it was cold and lonely and you stared out the apparatus door windows just thinking..... You have much to share, I follow you on nycfirenet as well. God bless you brother, keep on doin'......

Great thread and discussion. I was the person that originally used the word "dissing". I did not direct those comments toward you Chief, or anyone for that matter. I guess the way I used the word is more about "disagreeing" than "disrespecting." But I am out of the game (retired 2006), and no matter how I think about NIMS and ICS, I will stay out where appropriate. ~Stay safe brothers.

Chris, I gotta disagree with you on this one. You would be amazed at how good some places like Eastchester(which from this perspective I shall comment), NR,MV,Y FIRE Department incidents are handled. A working fire. A crew of 16 on duty (including the Chiefs). The coordination between the UNDERSTAFFED engine companies, the truckies doing their thing, but most importantly an officer riding that front seat of responsibility; the tour commander, the man looking at potential life hazards on a regular basis. From a shift perspective, ICS and NIMS are in effect implemented simply by the way the department operates. Look, the tour commander is going to come in and do the initial instructing of what direction for an understaffed crew to take and do the best they can. Command is shifted to the Chief on the exterior because of the obvious disadvantages of having the tour commander leading his men into the fire; we now have the Chief's eyes and knowledge outside to coordinate what direction the incident will take, particularly if the conditions deteriorate and action needs to be taken regarding the safety of the members. This command change happens rapidly, and effectively. It is a process that the brothers of an understaffed system have proven to be the best way they can proceed to give it the best fight they possibly can. I agree with you that "dissing" unified command is not the way to go. You seem to be really concerned about these water rescue issues, and after seeing that bird and piper collide this past week with 9 dead, I can completely understand where you are coming from. Culturally, many of the brothers take an attitude that can be misconstrued by other agency members. This is a big problem. I found a few times as a tour commander, wearing a white shirt and a tie, that I'd be catching a 'tude from a rookie cop. I'd be like "what's up with this kid", with the other PD brothers/sisters who I'd been working along side for many years. We had many famous clashes between FD/PD but the football games in Eastchester seem to have helped some of the brothers take out their feelings; in a good positive athletic way. Anyway I guess I just really want to say, some of the most effective services the residents of lower Westchester get, is when they have the unfortunate experience of a fire emergency. The early stages of the fire attack/ and control thereof is the specialty of the brothers I know and worked with; and my hat is off to all of them. Edit: for spelling

You have a lot of good things to say brother; but did you notice the Chief is from Rockland Maine K? I can give you directions, you should check out Camden while you're there, "where the mountains meet the ocean."

Alright, that's pretty cool. Congrats to the brother.

83 & 29 "Da Bums on Da Hill" (another Company logo banned by FDNY) Good luck in your travels.

29 Truck filmed a video from the jumpseat of a rear open cab tower, that became widely circulated. I know this because my Uncle Robert was 29's Chauffer that day. The brother was filming over the roof of the rig as they responded in, with quite a commentary. You could easily call their quarters and inquire if any of the members there has any knowledge of where a copy might be. Battalion 14 quarters: 718-430-0214. 'Splain what you looking for, the Batt. will probably give you a direct number to 83/29.

Why not give the Fire Coordinators their own color, or even a black helmet with a different colored shield than the usual red for truckies, white for officers, etc. Yes, sometimes in the first few chaotic moments of a job (particularly one that is going badly), with multipal agencies on scene and if the question of who REALLY IS in charge hanging out there (not refering to the Manlius fire here at all), I could see how firefighters might follow the lead of a "white helmet." We've all seen the look in some of the brothers eyes when they are staring into the abyss, the unknown, of a structure fire. Particularly the younger, less experienced brothers; they ARE looking for an officer to provide direction; and more importantly to LEAD. In this context you can see how it is possible that the simple color of a guys helmet might influence members to follow a directive on the fireground. So I guess the lesson would be; paying attention to who is telling you what; it just might be Chris walking around conducting an experiment :-)

(Apologies for taking the thread off topic) I should have said the brothers and sister in EASTCHESTER will never have to experience the constant nightmare of diesel e/p residue ever again, because of Nederman systems being installed. I referenced in another post about how improvements in the fire service more than often come from the bottom up; from the members of the dept. The Nederman experience we had in Eastchester is one of those cases. Our Health & Safety Committee of Local 916 pushed hard for these systems. I remember a fire commissioner who attended our mandatory H&S meeting (required by CONTRACT, another thing the older brothers had fought hard to establish) suggesting maybe the dept could find the money to outfit ONE firehouse per year; making elimination of diesel e/p a FIVE YEAR project! With the permission of the Chief of Dept. we went after our second AFG grant, flat out for exhaust systems; and we won the grant. Now we, the members went back to the department commmissioner with 50 grand plus and said "okay, let's get this done now sans your assinine five year plan." I'd certainly hope any department today not outfitted for safe removal of diesel e/p residue would have that item as one of their highest priorities for the members. Diesel particulate has been a silent killer in the fire service for decades.

Training has come a long way. When I first got on the job, our training consisted of taking an engine and a truck down to the Bronx River, drafting from it and flowing the master stream on the aerial. Or we practiced knots. As the years went by quickly, our officers started coming out of the FLSTPS program on Randall's Island, and came to the shifts with new and improved training ideas. The Chief pretty much left it up to the tour commanders to cover the required 100 hours, and all the topics supposedly included in those hours. Computers have added to the proficiency and productivity of the training programs. We used to feel like the sign in sheets were just CYA stuff; just in case. Training was just as often a chance for our shift members to get together and cook a great lunch, and enjoy the comradery. Now officers have a greater responsibilty, as do the brothers, to do it right and make sure the paperwork is in order on the hard drive. The fire service has always improved itself from the efforts of the members. If we waited for the dept. to take the lead, the brothers would still be drafting out of the Bronx River wondering what the lunch special would be. :-) (Disclaimer: Being retired I am refering to the past about the dept. My comments should not be construed as passing any judgement on todays' management in my old department. I know those men who now lead, and I also know them to be quite competent and decent, k.)

Nice post. Now you are talking about character. The character of an officer in charge will make or break how this scenario develops. You need a guy to take charge in a firm yet respectful way; a guy who will immediately contact all incoming agencies and say "look here's the deal, and here's what we need to do." You get a guy running around yelling orders in a chaotic fashion and nobody is going to listen. I always found the IC who spoke softly, confidently, firmly and respectfully to all was the guy I wanted to listen to, to get the job done the right way. PS: I own a home in Lincoln County, Town of Whitefield. Maine is a beautiful state, but the ocean sure stays cold all summer long;-)

I like it.

I got this straight out of Jimmy Griffith's "FDNY Operational Reference" It shows how they organized joint operations between agencies: "The Mayor's directive of May 1997, designated OEM as 'On-scene Interagency Coordinator.' The OEM role is to assist the IC in ensuring optimum use of agency resources while eliminating potential conflict among agencies which have overlapping areas of expertise and responsibility. FDNY is designated IC at fires, haz-mat (I think this might have been changed a bit), explosions, structural collapse, rail and air crashes, and confined space rescues. NYPD provides the IC for civil disturbances, bomb threats including suspicious and actual devices, hostage incidents, sniper situations, and water rescues. Responsibility for terrorism is shared. NYPD handles threats (including conventional weapons, bombs, or chemical or biological release). FDNY manages mitigation of an actual explosion or release(again I think haz-mat protocols in NYC have been revized) ; followup investigation falls to the NYPD. DEP is responsible for water main breaks, DOC manages jail disturbances, NYSDOCS manages prison disturbances. OEM provides coordination to mitigate power and telephone outages. OEM will designate command responsibility in multifaceted situations where there is no obvious lead agency. Note that OEM does not assume command. Extrication at vehicle accidents is not addressed in the 1997 directive. Presumably, the 1994 guidance continues i.e. first agency to arrive initiates rescue ops and continues to completion or relief upon request; NYPD is in charge. It is presumed that resources from both agencies will be used at the common incidents shown above, and that management is as indicated." Simple, straight forward, and most agencies in Westchester have similar SOPs(the work quoted is not the official NYC SOPs, it is a summary written by the author), maybe not spelled out everywhere in Westchester, and if not they should be.