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"The mayor was referring to a predicted $2.3 million shortfall in property tax revenues for 2010. Cutting the 14 crossing guards should save the city $45,000." P!ssin in the wind. Wait until the engine company that is scattered across town tending to the crosswalks gets a job with trapped occupants who burn because of the delay. The lawsuit will make the $2.3 mil look like..........lunch money.

What is this....and now a word from our sponsor? JK.. Best of luck to the brother, brother!

Yes indeed...

Thanks for the info Mike.

How much does Mr. Dragonetti charge for the elevator course?

Chipotle (pronounced chi-poat-lay)....lol

What happened to the old "halligan tool into the cable wheel" up in the motor room, to ensure no further movement of the elevator car? Do you not have these cable wheels in the newer style elevators? Most of the elevators we had in my district were the older type Otis brand, and it was SOP for a truckman to immediately get up there, kill the power and get the halligan tool into the wheel; just in case. Even though most models have auto-locks which prevent the car from moving up or down until power is properly reset. From there we'd futz around with the complete key set until we found something that worked. Sometimes we needed an attic ladder to remove victims, but that was rare. Only once were we forced to resort to the hydra-ram, for a particularly cantankerous door. In this case, we needed to add wood blocks to secure the hydra-ram, as the door was forced further until finally the lock gave way; no damage to the door. It can be a trying type of call. You have people that are anxious to get out of the car, and once you are there, obviously now the pressure is on, the clock is ticking, and dispatch is waiting to hear those famous words, "the victims have been removed safely." As that clock ticks....STAY COOL.....

Ah shucks game, if'n I hadn't used up my one precious vote already today........

Cablevision vs. Yankees Network was the first salvo. People in the Bronx and Westchester couldn't see the Yankees until that one got settled. What do we expect from MONOPOLY cable companies?

Over there in the bottom right corner Chief!___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________>>

You guys have some GREAT information in this thread. Why don't you all start really bumping each other up with these "reputation buttons"? This is one of the more productive, less dramatic threads. Give yourselves some credit. Just MHO.

Very sorry to read this news. May Lt. Finch rest in peace, and may his family garner strength in the coming days from the love and support the Stamford emergency services community will surely step up and provide.

I like the concept. But the specs don't provide any motor info, so I'm going to assume this will be a trans-mounted 4 cylinder, front-wheel-drive. With the weight of the equipment in Fly Cars or Command Vehicles, could this pull the weight? Minimum would be a V-6, optimimum V-8 RWD found in the classic Suburban and Tahoe. Oh yeah, I think Ford and Chrysler make a couple of those too...

Excuse me I misunderstood your question. The rig I saw at ground zero, to the best of my recollection, was Greenville FD. ~exiting....stage right.....

Good job. I have no idea about the rest of it, I've said all I can on this matter. Stay safe.

I like the motion Bill made on the floor. If I might, I really didn't want to be involved in the crucst of this discussion; I feel like my role was so insignificant in the bigger picture of that day, I just got drawn into this discussion. I'd like to thank Seth for the insight into what went on inside 60-Control that day. We always appreciated the job that 60-Control did, for the years of 24 hour coverage, the assistance, I could go on but everyone here knows what I'm saying. Thanks again brothers.

Thanks for your excellent recounting Brother Marc.

You guys did the best you could under extremely difficult circumstances. NOBODY is blaming 60-Control dispatchers.

Seth, are you kidding me? You've got three members here telling the board that is EXACTLY what we heard! I never blamed 60-Control for anything, I'm just relaying the FACTS as I remember them, backed up by a couple of reputable posters here....

That's a very good point Chief; where is the accountability... I guess there would have been no central command that knew exactly who went where right away. Only the individual Chiefs would have known what units they sent. I'm speculating that 60-Control was in touch with Manhattan dispatch at the time, and when they were hearing things over the radio like "we're under attack, send the army!" it might have been a quick judgement call to just send units to this catastrophy; and figure it out later. At any rate, thanks for the response. I wish you and all the other Commanders in Westchester all the best in moving the fire service forward. Lord knows the time is well past due for some major improvements! ~Stay well Chief. George Glover Jr.

I appreciate the members backing up my recollection of the radio that day. I'm going to expand a bit. The dispatcher also said words to the effect "all departments north of 287 respond to the Westchester Training Center." I have no idea who went where initially, except for one rig. When we took our infamous bus ride to Ground Zero, there was a Westchester career department's rig hooked up to a hydrant, a few blocks north of the collapse zone on the West Side. The members working the rig looked exhausted. Now; how do you think that rig got there? Do you think their Chief just decided to send apparatus to Ground Zero without orders or dispatch from someone? I highly doubt it. The debate went on for many months as to what the "right" thing to have done that day would have been. If my chief had followed the directional from 60-control and sent us right to the World Trade Center (assuming the directive to respond "to Manhattan" meant just that), we would have done our duty and gone as ordered. Just as we did our duty, and did nothing regarding the original dispatch; as per Chief's orders; until the plan was evolved to relocate the rigs to the Bronx staging area.

Whoever was dispatching at 60-Control that day! What's up Chief, are you doubting what I said? Then let's go to the audiotape! I'm very happy to hear everybody has been drilling with FDNY, too bad nobody has the hydrant wrenches yet. I hope they can fix that one soon. I also heard that the mutual aid coverage was great for Pat Joyce's funeral. The only problem is some departments send better staffed apparatus on mutual aid then they actually staff for their own jurisdictions. Example: Dept. X has a two man engine, and a two man truck. They get a mutual-aid call for the truck, take the engine out of service, and ride four members on the truck for the MA call. And furthermore, these other depts had days to plan for the funeral. Ask for 20 units because you have a firestorm up in the hills somewhere again, and see what you can get in a timely manner. This is the way it was when I retired in '06. Maybe things have changed for the better, I hope so. Refer to my post if you think that I think we did a great job that day. ~Best Regards Chief.

If the question were asked, "would you still volunteer if there were no Service Award Programs?" The retort could be "would you choose to be a career firefighter if there were no pensions?" But in this case the question "would you still volunteer if you weren't permitted to have a blue light?" Would be easier compared with the question "would you still be a career firefighter if you weren't allowed IAFF stickers for your vehicles?" Apples with apples, no?

I don't know about how everyone who was working in southern Westchester that day feels; but I can tell you I have never felt good about the way things went down on 9-11. I can't see anybody trying to take any credit for what we did not do. I remember very distinctly that morning and the ensuing chaos. We received tones following the collapses to the effect of "all departments south of 287 respond to Manhattan." As eager as we were to respond, our Chief decided to hold units, stock medical supplies and await further orders. A recall of all off duty members was instated; the southern Westchester Chiefs formulated some kind of plan, and units eventually responded to the Bronx staging area. My squad was working, so we were held held back, while off-duty members beefed up staffing on rigs and responded to the Bronx. Frustrating. The story from the responding Captain was that the staging area was at times somewhat out of control. A chief in the firehouse had a missing son in the collapse and guys were eating pizza in the street and joking around. Embarrasing. We went on 24on/24off schedule for a few days. There was nothing that most of us could do, except cover our own response areas. Some members staffed a full compliment ladder company, relocated to a Bronx station, and had to endure a "lecture" from a former fire commissioner in front of FDNY members. Humiliating. When somebody finally organized something for the hundreds of career firefighters to "officially" do, we all boarded tour buses out of Station 3 in Mt. Vernon, rode down the West Side in front of cheering crowds, ran a gauntlet of tools and supplies, walked to the site to be met at the FD Command Post and told "sorry guys, there's been a mix-up, we have to go home." Then we had to walk past cheering crowds back to the buses. Humiliating and frustrating. I remember a brother, back on the bus asking "what did we come here for lunch?" The only times I ever felt useful was helping fill the ranks at funerals. This came with a call through the unions, it had nothing to do with the County. One of the earliest was in the Bronx; using a Yonkers Casson and honor guard for the casket. I'll never forget the now deceased Chief from Yonkers who helped me to get a grasp on the magnitude of what had happened. When that Chief left us a couple/few years later, I thought back to the day we buried FDNY Firefighter Manuel DelValle. I could never have imagined that Chief wouldn't be with us thereafter. Frustration, embarassment, humiliation. Every one of us who ever attended a funeral or memorial for a 9-11 cop or firefighter knows who the true heroes were. As Captain Billy Burke's brother said at his funeral in St. Patricks Cathedral "One hundred years from now, all of us will be gone and mostly forgotten. But these 343 firefighters names and memories will live way beyond that." That rang so true to me.

No other in particular Lieu, I associated myself with my local in the same sentence. I'm speaking in the hypothetical. If you want an example of another outcome, check the report here of the other municipal union's vote in this case in the link above. I don't have any inside information, other than what has been reported on this site; I'm in Florida, and I'm not rah-rahing having to give ANYTHING back out of a contract. But when faced with hard choices, unions have to make tough decisions. I didn't vote here, have no vested interest in the outcome other than to say I'm proud as an IAFF member to see how another Local faced adversity. And it's just my opinion, nothing more. This website has a pretty comprehensive breakdown of demographics, trends in housing prices, population statisitcs, pretty much everything. Check it out: http://www.city-data.com/zips/10801.html