JFLYNN

Many of you are probably already aware of this, but many may not be. When responding to side impact collisions, oftentimes in my experience the severity of injuries are more serious than they might appear from observing the damage which was done to the vehicle which was "T-boned". The patient in the t-boned vehicle as well may not appear seriously injured, i.e. may be conscious and alert with no obvious trauma. However, consider the mechanism of injury. If the door or B-post is forced inward by the collision, the driver or passengers sitting adjacent to the point of impact were most likely impacted on their side, causing oftentimes serious internal injuries. I'm not a paramedic, but I have responded to several of these type accidents where the individual sitting next to the point of impact appeared to be relatively ok, but soon thereafter went into shock and / or died. p.s. QTIP...

There you guys go again..."critiquing", aka Monday Morning Quarterbacking something you are obviously not qualified to critique and the anti-Yonkers bias (jealousy?) creeps in again...FYI, Yonkers sends at least 2 apparatus and a Battalion Chief every time we respond to a highway fot safety reasons-one rig to block traffic and the other to do the work. That's a total of 10 Firefighters. I'm surprised at all you FDNY worshippers, no one has pointed out how many personell and apparatus they send every time they respond to a highway...I can tell you this, it's significantly more than Yonkers sends, and good for them... FYI, earlier in the morning Yonkers units did a great job, along w/ Emresss ambulance, County PD, and YPD extricating 3 from one vehicle- one of whom was pinned under the vehicle (necessitating the use of High Lift airbags) and two inside, and two or three ejections. After the investigation was complete, they were called back for a "washdown". You might notice that despite a 450 man department, no one from Yonkers posted any details on this because, basically, it was only a little more than routine for us. I decided to post the above response to try to get some of you guys who just don't seem to get it to think a little before you criticize dedicated professionals who do this for a living, and who have a reason for everything we do, many times which you are simply not aware of. QTIP

HAHAHALOL...You nailed it brother...it's not really even about Kentland is it? Rather, how out of touch with reality some of our other brothers are, hero worship of places like Kentland AND OF COURSE, OH MY, FDNY!!!(which for the record is a great department and one on which I have many friends, active and retired)...these guys (the out of touch with reality buffs, not necessarily all buffs) will, apparently never get past that immature stage of the young kid who dresses up like a firefighter and goes to visit his heroes in the local firehouse and has no concept of what the job is all about other than flashing lights and sirens, and fireman "costumes" i.e. all the FDNY and other buff paraphenilia that they can't seem to leave home without...it will never change and, to me, it's the most annoying thing about being a member of the fire service... Hey, how many times has one of you guys been somewhere, a restaurant or whatever, having a nice time, and one of these aforementioned brothers walks in, all decked out in FDNY garb, big beer belly hanging out over his multiple pagers, and you just cringe? Can't you see yourselves brothers???????

We don't have to "ride" with them to have an opinion. The very fact that they "would be more than glad to accomodate" anyone who just shows up for a "ride along" is just one more reason for my opinion that they are an embarrasment to the fire service, are dangerous to other fire companies they operate alongside of, and are more interested in showing off and playing fireman than serving their community.

Couldn't agree with you more...I have been aware of Kentland for a while now, and as far as I can see they are very good at one thing...self promotion...

Why would "these types of threads no longer be allowed/kosher"???

All through the 80's and into the mid 90's Yonkers Fire Apparatus were in horrible shape...it would not be uncommon for a rig to be missing a door...oftentimes apparatus would go out of service and the "spare" we were issued would be a a Suburban or a van...many rigs would have major difficulty going into pump and with certain ladder co.'s you crossed your fingers that the aerial would go up...I used to have to sit on a turned over compound bucket in the crew cab of one Engine Company I worked on...even had certain apparatus that if you used the horn too much you lost your brakes... ...through the efforts of many different people- in administration, the unions, Chiefs, line Firefighters and Officers, we have gotten to where we are today, and those of us who can remember the "old days" appreciate what we have and don't want to go back and thus our frustration when outsiders question our apparatus purchasing policy OR when some (only some) of our newer members don't seem to appreciate what we have today...

That is an excellent point!

It's irrelevant because FDNY does not set the standard for us as far as apparatus goes...and it's irrelevant because you're comparing Rescue apparatus to Tower Ladders...and it's irrelevant because you have your facts wrong about the age and condition of both the FDNY and the Yonkers apparatus you refer to... it's also a bit annoying to read a thinly veiled criticism of our department coming from an 18-20 year old from New Jersey...

Are you asking a question or giving an opinion??? Well anyway, we need new TL's for all the parades we go to...wait, we don't go to parades... I guess we need TL's in good condition to safely transport our Firefighters to roofs and upper floors of burning buildings, to remove trapped civilians, to put large volumes of water on fires...all of which we do fairly regularly..."heavily beat up" just won't cut it for us...the condition of FDNY Rescue apparatus (or your opinion of their condition) could not be more irrelevant...

Does anyone on here know if the option of putting the entire EMS / transport contract out to competitive bid had been explored ?

Are you sure you're sure???? Full PPE, SCBA, and a handline stretched every time a cutoff saw is operated? You guys need to get a grip...you are going on and on about a picture which represents one moment in time...none of you really know what is going on in that picture...you're stumbling all over yourselves trying to show your own "knowledge"...maybe he should have had on gloves and better eye protection but I would tend to give the man the benefit of the doubt if he is who people on here seem to think he is...for that matter I would give him the benefit of the doubt no matter who he is...it's just a picture and doesn't tell the whole story...some of you admittedly have NEVER even started a cutoff saw and you are criticizing someone who has probably operated such a saw thousands of times...BTW, these saws are started and run daily by thousands in most career departments throughout the country by a member who normally is wearing only station wear and injuries or mishaps are almost unheard of...I do agree that it is common sense to wear eye protection and some sort of glove, and maybe earing protection for prolonged operations but come on people let's get our priorities in order... How many of you on here posting on this subject are out of shape? Do you exercise regularly and watch what you eat?? What are the stats on heart attacks for Firefighters as a percentage of LODs and serious injuries????? And I don't care if the guy in the pic was licking a running saw blade, some 17 year old kid should know better than to post a critical remark in a public forum about an an exprienced, respected member of a major Fire Department...it's called respect and knowing your place...

Young man, I don't know you, but based on all the times you have "put your 2 cents in", and what you have had to say, I predict that, unless you change your attitude, you will have a very difficult and unhappy career if you are ever hired as a career Firefighter anywhere...that's just my two cents...

undoubtedly...qtip...

I don't understand, maybe someone can enlighten me...if "the cost of the participation will be paid for by the volunteers", does this mean that it won't cost the municipality, the state, or other members of the health insurance plan anything, and if so, why not just let everyone participate in "certain municipal employee health Insurance Plans"?

perfect...there is hope for the fire service...

Bobby, wish there were more guys like you around... good question to stimulate some discussion (although some of the discussion so far has been scary- SOME OF YOU GUYS NEED TO GET OFF THESE WEBSITES AND INTO THE TEXTBOOKS) ...my answer = .......wait, you know what my answer would be... QTIP

Seth, Nice post...you summed it up nicely...as to some of the responses you have gotten so far, an old mentor of mine used to say..."these guys don't have a clue and they never will"...but I'm sure your message was heard (and understood) loud and clear by a lot of your junior members...and that's what a good senior man does- tell the junior guys when they're out of line whether they want to hear it or not. I and others would definitely participate a lot more here but for the annoying children... BTW, I'm very proud of the fact that I haven't seen any posts here from the more junior members of my job, all of whom have been successful at a very competitive testing process to even get hired, then gone through 16 weeks of Proby school, then assigned to work in a Firehouse...and by junior, I mean, in my opinion, less than about 5 years on the job...all of that which is a lot more than many of the members who repeatedly make nonsensical posts on here.. and do you know why "our junior guys" wouldn't post (and many of the junior guys from other departments)?...because they have been trained by and work side by side with some of the best, and they at least know what they don't know...and they wouldn't want to embarass themselves or their department. Funny thing is, guaranteed, these kids who are complaining about the way you have "spoken" to them now, will many years from now, be the ones crying the loudest about how the new guys talk too much and don't respect them as senior guys... So, yes, "QTIP" kiddees, and we'll all just chuckle when you don't (because I know my post won't fix you- you never get it and never will, remember?)

We did some experimenting several yrs. ago in Yonkers with using a TIC for just this purpose. While it may a good tool to use at night for spotting a warm body in areas on the side of the road that otherwise wouldn't be seen by the naked eye due to darkness, it will not penetrate thick brush, so a warm body that is hidden behind brush so thick that you wouldn't see it in daylight will not be spotted with a TIC, either at night or during daylight hours. So, go ahead and use it, but realize that scanning an area with aTIC does not rule out the possibility of a live body.

Thought I would mention that the guy with no helmet in this pic is Assistant Chief Vinny Muller. A great Chief and a true gentleman. He was killed while walking his dog in Tibbetts Park by a hit and run driver. Subsequently, an off duty NYPD Officer was convicted of tampering with evidence for disposing of his car by cutting it up and hiding it in a relatives attic upstate. Neither he not anyone else was actually able to be convicted for the real crime, but many of us feel we know who did it. I got to know Vinny while assigned to E-303 as a Firefighter in early 90's which is where Batt-1 rides out of. BTW, these were the short lived days of the yellow turnout coats.

An interesting related issue seems to have come up here, which is the numbers of career vs. volunteer Firefighters in NYS, and the amount of work they do (amount of service they provide). The number of career Firefighters in NYS is fairly easy to measure- there are approximately 25,000 total, with, I believe, approximately 11,000 in NYC, so 14,000 total outside NYC. FASNY states that there are 116,000 volunteer Firefighters in NYS. Therefore, excluding NYC, the percentage of volunteer vs. career personnel is 90/10. Including NYC, the percentage is 18/82. *Feel free to check my numbers- I think they are accurate but I did this quickly and I wouldn't bet my life on it. Anyway, I BELIEVE that the 10% or 18% of career Firefighters, whichever number you choose to use, protects the overwhelming majority of NYS residents (much higher than the 55% number previously mentioned). Also, I believe that the smaller number of career Firefighters performs a far greater amount of service than the larger number of volunteer Firefighters, however you choose to measure "service" or "work", be it alarms, runs, structure fires, all fires, etc. Years ago, I was told that the 10% of career Firefighter in NYS outside NYC extinguish 80-90% of all structural fires outside NYC. I don't have any direct evidence for this- I believe it could be gotten from OFPC, but I don't have the time or inclination to research this right now. Maybe someone reading this has access to this info., perhaps Bnechis... What's my point? I'm sure some of you will say it's an anti-volunteer one. It isn't. My point is that, to have an honest, intelligent, RATIONAL discussion about any controversial issue, we must first educate ourselves about the FACTS. I feel that on this site, there are a lot of individuals who are versed in the facts concerning this and other issues discussed here, and a lot more who have only a very cursory knowledge of the issues at hand, but they feel free to post arguments to suit their own personal situation (the way they want things to be). Their argument is not based on fact. It is not a rational argument. It is an emotional one. It's a free country and we are all entitled to our opinion, no matter how wrong it may be. I visit this site periodically and sometimes post, however, before long, I lose patience due to the numerous people who post their opinions here as if they were fact, and get isnulted when their incorrect opinion is refuted with facts. So, I go away for a while. To all of you younger guys out there I'll say this. Information is a good thing. Just be careful about where you get your info. The internet is a great tool, however one problem with forums like this is that people can post completely inaccurate info. as if it were gospel, and there is really no editing, such as you would have in a well known magazine, or in a textbook. Be careful who you take your information from. Ask yourself- what is this person's background and their motivation related to the issue at hand? Don't be fooled by a confident swagger, or someone's age, years of service, or the size of their mustache'...many people "just don't know what they don't know", hey, maybe I'm one of them? Be skeptical. Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut for as long as possible. And, oh yeah, q-tip...

OK, you and others have made one valid point-" not all volunteer agencies have all those little perks"...agreed...however, most of them do, and many more I didn't mention, and your point is irrelevant to the discussion... my 2 main points apply directly to the issue of the discussion of the proposed gas credit and to recap and be clear, my 2 main points are: 1. if you are truly a volunteer, you do not accept compensation 2. NYS residents who choose to live in a locality where there is a career fire department which is paid for by their taxes should not have to have a portion of their NYS taxes go toward subsidizing NYS residents who choose to live in a locality with a volunteer department BTW, yes, there are far more volunteer Firefighters in NYS than career, however the career protect the overwhelming majority of NYS residents and extinguish the overwhelming majority of structure fires. These are indisputable facts. This is not at all a "dig" at volunteer firefighters, just one more reason why the majority of NYS residents should not be forced to pay for any of the gas that this large number of "volunteers" uses in their own commnuities. It's a real shame some of you just can't qtip, and have a reasonable discussion about issues, but rather, continue to deflect from the issues and attack others personally as it suits you, which is why I haven't posted on here for a while now, and probably won't again anytime soon.

MY DEEPEST APOLOGIES TO LADD12ERFF. I MISINTERPRETED A POST HE MADE ON HERE AND I ALSO ASSUMED INCORRECTLY THAT HE WAS SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I SPOKE ABOUT KNOWING HIM FROM HIS FORMER COWORKERS AND ABOUT HIS PREVIOUS POSTS...HE IS NOT WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS AND I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CAREFUL BEFORE MAKING MY POST. AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES. NO EXCUSES, JUST CARELESSNESS ON MY PART.

Thanks Chris and you other guys who received my comments in the vain in which they were intended. I'm not at all surprised by others who make these type things a personal issue, and then, instead of defending their position, attack an individual or group. As I've said before, I am not anti-volunteer. I have many friends and acquaintances who are volunteer Firefighters. What I am is anti-hypocrisy. I am a taxpayer in NYS and a proud member of the fire service and I will always call a spade a spade. So, no one has "made" this a career vs. volly issue. Some things just are, like when volunteer firefighter groups lobby against safe staffing and training standards which are being proposed for career firefighters, or when legislation like this gas credit is proposed which will only benefit volunteer firefighters and will hurt career firefighters by taking a lot of money out of the state tax coffers, thus increasing our taxes and / or diminishing support provided to our departments / communities. Or the many other programs and incentives which cost NYS money but benefit only volunteer firefighters. I don't like that these things happen, and I will speak out to change them, but that doesn't mean that I dislike or disrespect someone just because he or she is a member of a volunteer fire department. All of this is why I pro-actively sign most of my posts, "qtip"... P.S. For the record, Ladd12erff, I have learned quite a bit about you from former co-workers and, based on your posts, I haven't been a bit surprised at what I have learned...

Fortunately for us irrelevant dozen or so people we are able to have respectful disagreement with others, apparently unlike yourself. We are also able to maintain a sense of humor about these matters, and qtip. If you would like, one of us "dozen or so" would be glad to spellcheck any petitions or letters of support you might be drafting.