JFLYNN

Chris, you're correct in regard to having one person (the Officer) do the talking but there are very many reasons why every mermber operating on the fireground should have a radio in the ON position and should be LISTENING to it...primarily because when "it" hits the fan the mayday or urgent call will very rarely be given in a calm, clear manner...it may be faint, garbled, rushed, etc., and the more people that are monitoring the airwaves, the more likely that someone will actually hear and make sense of what is happening and be able to react to it or give the proper info. to someone who is in a position to react.

HAHA ...No you didn't Chris...the lack of reply's to this thread comes as no surprise to many of us and is further evidence of what certain people's actual motivations are...they're more worried about maybe not being the big fish in the small pond anymore than they are worried about discussing the best way to deliver efficient cost effective fire protection...at least not in their own backyard but they'll be only to happy to discuss how to "improve' things in someone else's backyard... P.S. On a totally unrelated note- this forum would be less painful at times to read if those of you who aren't sure of the correct use of the followuing words would look them up:there, they're and their...

I just checked the budget- 720 total w/ 641 Uniformed and I guess the rest civilian. Of course unfortunately those numbers will go down soon unless we can all pull a rabbit out of the hat...stay safe.

Dennis, do you only have 600 members? It says 720 in the Fiscal Year 08-09 budget. In any event, this whole thing sucks and I echo your sentiments of good luck to all and stay safe in these tough times.

First of all, thank you for your service to our country. You and several others in this thread have been very eloquent in expressing why we should not sink to the level of these savage killers. It is what they want and would only be playing into their hands. Revenge is like drinking poison and hoping your enemy dies. This country truly is that "shining city on a hill" referred to be Ronald Reagan...we can't let anger and frustration cause us to abandon our core values and principles...

This is an excellent topic about a serious problem. In my opinion, leadership at the County level(s) needs to be stronger to overcome the parochialism which stands in the way of more efficient delivery of fire / ems services. Of course, when you're talking about the issue of which department is closer you have to be careful to not compare apples to oranges...i.e. you need to differentiate between ladder companies, tower ladders, rescues, engines, tankers, etc., and you also need to differentiate between a fire company or firehouse which is staffed and one which is not (generally a career vs. volunteer difference, but doesn't always have to be...theoretically a volunteer department could make a commitment to always have adequate manpower in the firehouse/ witht he apparatus ready to respond). In any event, this topic is an important one which should be explored further and hopefully a strong leader or leaders will emerge at the county level to deal with these issues.

The money for this apparatus was bonded well before the economy tanked...as far as keeping the manpower up, we are undermanned in comparison to similar sized cities across the country and, barring a minor miracle, our manning levels will most likely be getting worse very soon...

That's Chris Williams- a Superstar. I'm in the bucket behind him w/ A.Liberatore- another Superstar.

In that case, comgratulations!

That was a bit freaky...I was the Capt. on L-71 for the Linden St. Job and the Mulberry Street job, and the original Squad-1 for the trooper car, as well as the job on Schroeder St., and I was the Capt. for the hardware store job on Elm St.- at that one R1Smokeeater (my lil'buddy) got me untangled from a bunch of wires and crap that my mask got caught up in as I watched the fire that we had passed get larger and larger...the Linden St. job I didn't feel like Spiderman but rather a scared little kid- I was following around an awesome senior man who was a bit more comfortable walking a steeply pitched roof in crappy visibility than I was...thanks for bringing back some good memories...I'm looking forward to being a company officer again soon...

How is this a win?

Some of my friends would tell me that I shouldn't sink to this individual's level and respond to his comment and I guess they're correct, so I will not respond to him directly. However, when nonsense like this is posted it can give false impressions to readers of this forum so I will say this to you all...the individual is obviously bitter and / or jealous...Yonkers Fire can and does justify the purchase of needed equipment to the appropriate authorities...the leaders of the department are very comfortable explaining the necessity of any and all of our equipment based on past history and an intelligent analysis of what the future may bring...it is unfortunate that we are frequently attacked for all the hard work and thought that we put into securing funding to acquire needed equipment and then smartly planning the purchase of this equipment...

P.S. Hi Lil' Buddy...I know you're out there...I'll be back soon...hope you're in my squad...

I appreciate your sentiment but I disagree with you regarding "Mt. Vernon bashing". I haven't seen any criticism on this site of Mount Vernon Firefighters, but rather, sympathy for their horrendous working conditions and concern for the residents of Mt. Vernon as well as any Firefighters who may have to respond in to Mt. Vernon on mutual aid. Whenever I am put in a position to justify manning levels in the City of Yonkers, one of the things I say is feel free to compare us to a similar size urban / suburban department in the Northeast and you will see that we are not "overmanned" as sometimes politicos or others in Westchester County may think...I always give the caveat though, "not including Mt. Vernon because what is happening there is practically criminal"...and by that I mean failure of the City Fathers to provide adequate manpower and equipment for the department. Surrounding municipalities have footed the bill for fire protection in Mt. Vernon for at least 20 years now. Look at places like the many North Jersey departments, Boston, Providence, Syracuse, etc. Check National Standards including recommendations promulgated by the International City Managers Association (not exactly a pro- Firefighter or pro-union group) and you will see how horribly undermanned a place like Mt. Vernon is. I believe virtually all career departments in Westchester including Yonkers are undermanned. Regionalization may eventually be the answer, who knows? However for the time being political leaders in Mt. Vernon have a moral obligation to provide adequate funding for their Fire Department. Don't tell me the money's not there...haven't people recently been indicted in Mt. Vernon for embezzling large sums of money?(I really haven't followed it that closely). I believe most Mt. Vernon Firefighters appreciate the comments that are made on here about their department. This situation must be exposed for what it is for there to be any chance that it will improve. One factor that hasn't really been mentioned though, that I feel has really hurt the Mt. Vernon Fire Department has been the many years of reverse discrimination in hiring and promotions. Clearly, in my view, the best people have not always been selected for hiring and promotion, and those who were more deserving and were passed over, have been left bitter, demoralized, and in contempt of many of their "leaders". To our brothers in Mt. Vernon I say that I will be happy to come there anytime to speak out regarding your inadequately manned and equipped department, or to work with you in any way to improve your working conditions, training, or hiring and promotion practices. Keep your heads up, try not to become bitter, and remember that no matter how shabbily you (we) are sometimes treated by our employers, that the people we are sworn to protect are entitled to the best that we are able to give them. Stay safe.

Brother, I reread this thread and I didn't see where anyone has disrespected Mount Vernon Firefighters. Please explain why you think you have been disrespected. Maybe I missed something. I don't agree with everything that has been posted in this thread but I do think it is obvious that the level of understaffing and mutual aid abuse, as well as the poor quality of apparatus in Mt. Vernon rises to an unprecedented level in Westchester County, and probably even in the tri- State area. Most of us who have noticed these problems and comment on them are truly concerned for the safety and well being of Mt. Vernon Firefighters, as well as anyone who might have to respond in there on mutual aid. If I were you, I would be happy that others are taking notice of your deplorable working conditions and are commenting on it. Hang in there and stay safe!

I understand the good intention of your comments but they are inappropriate. You do not have enough facts to make a judgement in this case. What is reported in the media and what pictures seem to show are often incorrect. How do you know that one apparatus didn't swerve to avoid a pedestrian or a vehicle? Maybe one of the drivers suffered a seizure or other medical problem. Perhaps there was a mechanical failure....or, maybe a mistake was made...IF a mistake was made, it was just that...we are all human, and at this time, so soon after this tragic accident when most likely the drivers and Officers involved are feeling horribly about this, the last thing they need from their "brothers" is criticism. They need their "brothers" support. "Brothers" ,haha what an incredibly overused word in the fire service... P.S. Have you ever been in the Village? Those streets are probably a little bit more narrow, congested and confusing than what you're used to, Brother.

Apology accepted...it takes a man to just admit he made a mistake and is sorry and not make any excuses...

Your entire post is critical of other career departments and full of misinformation...and then at the end you say "watch each others back out there"??? Are you kidding me? Yonkers is not undermanned and FDNY is "overmanned"?? Thanks for watching our backs, "brother"...

Your quote from former Commissioner Guyett is ten years old. It refers to us not sitting in their firehouses. It does not say we will not respond on mutual aid. We have never refused mutual aid requests. Our policy is correct as stated in my previous post and has been in place for the last five or so years (again, as I stated in my previous post). At the time Commissioner Guyett made the comment to the journal news, Mt. Vernon had been abusing the mutual aid system, and we in Yonkers were beginning to move toward our current policy. We never ended mutual aid agreements with Eastchester and I have personally operated at a fire in Eastchester. I have also personally responded on mutual aid to Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, Greenville and Hawthorne during my career. To the best of my knowledge, the Yonkers Fire Department has never refused a mutual aid request in Westchester County or NYC. If in fact the last time Yonkers went to a fire scene in Mt. Vernon was 2004, that must have been the last time we were requested. Any remarks by the former Mount Vernon Fire Commissioner should be taken in light of from who they come...

You are absolutely incorrect regarding Yonkers not going in to Mt. Vernon on mutual aid. Our policy for the last 5 or so years regarding mutual aid remains in place. We will provide mutual aid in Westchester County or NYC when it is requested. If we are requested to respond directly to a working fire, we will stay as long as necessary. If requested to stand by in one of that departments fire houses, a Deputy or Battalion Chief will request them to begin a recall of their off duty members. If, after approximately 30 minutes, the Deputy or Battalion Chief believes that they have not begun recalling off duty members, we will return to Yonkers. We will stay for as long as it takes for them to bring the recalled members in if we believe that they are making an honest effort to quickly bring their own members in and are not using Yonkers to supplement their inadequately manned department. We do not treat Mt. Vernon any differently than any other department in this regard and I wish people would get their facts straight before posting things about the Yonkers Fire Department on here.

Dear John, Maybe if your current job had a good union it wouldn't suck as much as you think it does...and maybe someday you'll be old and wise enough not to make veiled criticisms of others from the outside looking in... Sincerely, Former angry know it all 20something year old (now older and wiser)

You guys are right. Why don't you get a petition together or something and notify all the media outlets of your concerns? Writing about it on here is only preaching to the choir.

In 1968 SCBA was basically optional and infrequently used... "Turnouts" today were "rubbergoods" then...yes, they would melt when exposed to enough heat... If the senior man told you in 1968 to "pull up your boots!" it meant it sounded like you were going to a "job" ("worker")...today we wear turnout pants... Sledgehammers exchanged for hydra-rams and rabbit tools...doors are popped MUCH faster and with much less effort... Just about everyone has a handie talkie now...back then generally only a small percentage of members would... widespread use of smoke detectors gets us there quicker...often before flashover, which can be a problem as we tend to get in quicker, and underneath rollover which can flash while we're in the room... 2 1/2" hose for interior attack was the norm in 1968, as well as smoothbore nozzles...we got away from that and now we seem to be drifting back- of course we could write volumes about the pros and cons of each... Tower Ladders were basically only in existence for a few years in 1968 and their use was as not as widespread as now... No thermal imagers or FAST teams in 1968, but a good Chief would always have an extra company(s) on scene standing by ready to go to work... Interior furnishings are much more synthetic today, making fires burn hotter and faster... Training today is much more formalized and I would say, better... Alcohol (yes I said it) is not nearly as much a factor on the fireground as it used to be... Generally, interior attacks were attempted then as much as they are today, however, the advance of the nozzle and search teams would rarely go beyond the doorway of the fire room or rooms until water was being put on the fire...today due mainly to advances in turnouts and SCBA we generally get in much deeper, sometimes too deep, and get ourselves in trouble... In my opinion, ventilation tactics were better understood back in 1968- there was huge importance placed on getting the roof open...SOME departments still understand the importance of this today, but many do not... Speaking of ventilation...energy efficient windows have changed fire behavior quite a bit since 1968 also... I could go on and on but I'll leave the rest to you guys... BTW, I was only 2 years old in 1968 so I base the above OPINIONS on what I have read (a lot) and what I have heard from respected senior men and retirees over the years (a lot too but more fun than all the reading) Despite all the changes, the nature of Firefighting is still basically the same...to do it right you need a good handful of agressive, and a little nutty guys who are willing to take a calculated risk and work as a team to put the red stuff on the wet stuff and remove those in harms way...

I see this a little differently than most of you guys...a one or two family house or a one, two, or three story structure can actually be quite large and / or have a confusing layout with a lot of bends and turns...in my opinion, the line should not be charged until smoke conditions dictate that it is time to don the SCBA facepiece...it may take a lot longer and require a lot more effort to advance a charged line than an uncharged line to the room where you THINK the main body of fire is located, not to mention that once you reach where you think the fire is, you might find out something different and now you have to reposition a charged line. Also, adding lengths, which is sometimes necessary, takes more time once the line is charged. In the training academy, you know the layout, you know where the main fire room or rooms are, and you know your preconnect will reach where you are going...in the real world, everything is subject to change and is not always as it at first appears. All the extra time required to move the charged line around a structure to where the fire is will allow the fire to grow and this is actually a less safe tactic for us than simply advancing the uncharged line until a heavy smoke condition is encountered. QTIP

I don't understand what you mean by "there's no mechanism there..." Please explain further, thanks.