New FDNY Engine 34- 2013 Seagrave w/ High Pressure Pump

[x635 4,066]

FDNY's new Engine 34, a 2013 Seagrave with a three stage high pressure 2000GPM pump.

[pump305 53]

Nice Engine Co. But i wonder why FDNY went back to old school rorators on the light bar?

[lalautze 35]

Nice Engine Co. But i wonder why FDNY went back to old school rorators on the light bar?

Not "old school"... Those are the new Federal Signal LED rotators, Vision SLR. A rotating mirror over a field of LEDs.

http://www.fedsig.com/products/296/vision_slr_lightbar

This seems to be the new standard lightbar for FDNY and NYPD on new bids. I cannot tell you why other than someone put it in the specs.

Edited October 8, 2013 by lalautze

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

3 stage pump?

[mscimia4 5]

the rotators tend to bounce off of buildings making it easier to see a rig before it comes around the corner whereas leds aren't as effective until they are up close

[osufire90 18]

no blue to the rear?

[FF402 133]

What exactly is a 3 stage pump?

[lalautze 35]

What exactly is a 3 stage pump?

This is a pump that allows higher pressure discharges for high rise buildings. There are three impellers in the pump to boost the pressure 3 times allowing operators to overcome the elevation loss when crews are operating on upper floors of buildings that do not have fire pumps (or working fire pumps) on the standpipe system. This requires special high pressure hose to hook from the pumper into the FDC on the building but by the time the water gets to the fire floor you can use standard pressure hose since crews will experience normal pressures due to the elevation pressure loss. Without the ability to pump the proper pressure the crews will not have adequate pressure or flow to fight the fire. Think of how many buildings in Manhattan that are over 30 stories tall...

Most pumpers in the nation have either single or two stage pumps.

Hope this helps and its not too complicated.

Edited October 9, 2013 by lalautze

[Pagers 197]

no blue to the rear?

Maybe in the rear minibars, I know blue is spec'd for new apparatus now, but you're right, can't tell if there is or not.

[pump305 53]

Well, The vision SLR are not very bright. Should of stayed with Whelen. Thanks for the answer though.

[M' Ave 1,466]

10 replies......6 about lights......ugh. Guess what lights do? NOTHING! Blue. Green, pink.....2 of them14 of them, makes no difference.

Now, to respond to the very good question that matters:

Laautze gave a good answer. I'll just expand a bit. All standard FDNY engines have a 2 stage pump with a transfer valve. We operate in volume as standard practice. This means that the impellers operate in parallel and produce 50psi at idle. When the valve is switched to pressure, the impellers operate in series, one after the other. At idle, the pump generates 100psi(about). All engines are capable of pumping at high pressure (excess of 250psi) however with each additional stage the upper limit is raised and the engine doesn't have to work as hard. Additionally, engines assigned as high pressure units are outfitted with the discharges painted in white. They are a heavier build. They are meant to be mated to high pressure hose, red in color with white fittings. This hose also allows for a tether to be attached. The tethered line must be tied off to the engine and the standpipe Siamese. A 50' safety zone must be established. This is why there are no HP discharges on the pump panel side. Only a chief officer can order high pressure operations.

[Remember585 815]

The passenger side pump inlet layout is interesting. Is there a valve that allows the ECC to choose which intake he is working with?

[firebuff88 4]

Questions for the knowledgeable folks:

-There are 4 sections of hard suction, what is the smaller diameter one use for?

-When the HP pump is in use, does the chauffeur use the side or rear discharge?

-What are oval gauge the underneath the circular gauges?

Also not another lightbar question but, does anyone know why they went away from the Aerodynic lightbars? Wonder if it was cheaper to buy the same lightbars as NYPD.

Thanks.

[x4093k 654]

They plan to put hoses in the back, correct?

Yes, it's an Engine.

Edited October 10, 2013 by x4093k

[lalautze 35]

Questions for the knowledgeable folks: -There are 4 sections of hard suction, what is the smaller diameter one use for? -When the HP pump is in use, does the chauffeur use the side or rear discharge? -What are oval gauge the underneath the circular gauges? Also not another lightbar question but, does anyone know why they went away from the Aerodynic lightbars? Wonder if it was cheaper to buy the same lightbars as NYPD. Thanks.

The oval gauges actually are to display the position of the valve to let the operator know if it is open, closed, or where in between those positions. Most of the valves are hand crank operated not a lever.

[SteveOFD 176]

An FYI for anyone who hasn't been up close to an FDNY rig. Look at picture number three ( the Chauffer side pump panel) the compartment to the right of the panel. Check out the carabiner (lock) on the door. The "D" (the round handle) handle does not turn, if this is the same as what I had seen on Rescue 5 when it was at the Long Island Show two years ago (?). You do not have to turn the "D" ring, just pull the door open, interesting concept.

[SteveOFD 176]

Questions for the knowledgeable folks: -There are 4 sections of hard suction, what is the smaller diameter one use for? -When the HP pump is in use, does the chauffeur use the side or rear discharge? -What are oval gauge the underneath the circular gauges? Also not another lightbar question but, does anyone know why they went away from the Aerodynic lightbars? Wonder if it was cheaper to buy the same lightbars as NYPD. Thanks.

Not knowing the specifics of the FDNY rigs, but from seeing pictures of how they operate, the hard suction line in the bottom rack (smaller one) looks to be of heavier construction and is most probably used for hydrant operations. The other three look to be of the lighter construction and are used for drafting operations. Being a long time Engine Company member and Officer, this is what I have seen over the the years. The lighter ones typically would not be able to withstand some of the higher pressures from hydrants, whereas drafting operations would create a negative pressure within the hose.

[M' Ave 1,466]

The passenger side pump inlet layout is interesting. Is there a valve that allows the ECC to choose which intake he is working with?

Yes, there is a valve.

Questions for the knowledgeable folks:

-There are 4 sections of hard suction, what is the smaller diameter one use for?

-When the HP pump is in use, does the chauffeur use the side or rear discharge?

-What are oval gauge the underneath the circular gauges?

Thanks.

I'll answer your questions in the order you've got listed.

1. The top three are flexible hard suction, for drafting. That's why they're stored higher up, in the less accessible position. The bottom, smaller length isn't really suction. We CALL it soft suction, but it isn't rigid. It's is our go to hydrant connection, at least here in the Bronx and the areas of Manhattan I'm familiar with. It's 10' long and is flexible and foldable. It's easy and quick for the engine chauffeur to hook up alone. Once the hydrant is open, that 4" diameter length will expand to maintain its shape regardless of how it's bent.

2. During high pressure ops, the chauffeur will use either the officer side discharge or the rear, whichever is more conducive to stretching to the Siamese. Never on the panel side, there is no HP discharge there.

3. This was answered, but again, it's just a meter showing the position of the valve. I find them to be useless. What does it matter what position the valve is in? You have the pressure gauge and the flow meter and the numbers they show are what determine whether you have to gate down or open up......or up the master on the pro-pressure governor.

[firebuff88 4]

 

Yes, there is a valve.

I'll answer your questions in the order you've got listed.

1. The top three are flexible hard suction, for drafting. That's why they're stored higher up, in the less accessible position. The bottom, smaller length isn't really suction. We CALL it soft suction, but it isn't rigid. It's is our go to hydrant connection, at least here in the Bronx and the areas of Manhattan I'm familiar with. It's 10' long and is flexible and foldable. It's easy and quick for the engine chauffeur to hook up alone. Once the hydrant is open, that 4" diameter length will expand to maintain its shape regardless of how it's bent.

2. During high pressure ops, the chauffeur will use either the officer side discharge or the rear, whichever is more conducive to stretching to the Siamese. Never on the panel side, there is no HP discharge there.

3. This was answered, but again, it's just a meter showing the position of the valve. I find them to be useless. What does it matter what position the valve is in? You have the pressure gauge and the flow meter and the numbers they show are what determine whether you have to gate down or open up......or up the master on the pro-pressure governor.

 

Thank you for the info! The FDNY Seagrave HP rigs are definitely one of a kind and very few departments have them. Not too many photos of them around (especially showing the pump panels from both sides and the rear of the truck).

[M' Ave 1,466]

An FYI for anyone who hasn't been up close to an FDNY rig. Look at picture number three ( the Chauffer side pump panel) the compartment to the right of the panel. Check out the carabiner (lock) on the door. The "D" (the round handle) handle does not turn, if this is the same as what I had seen on Rescue 5 when it was at the Long Island Show two years ago (?). You do not have to turn the "D" ring, just pull the door open, interesting concept.

Nope, standard door knob requiring a 90* turn. The carabiner is just an extra safety measure to guard against leaving the knob in the open position.

Not knowing the specifics of the FDNY rigs, but from seeing pictures of how they operate, the hard suction line in the bottom rack (smaller one) looks to be of heavier construction and is most probably used for hydrant operations. The other three look to be of the lighter construction and are used for drafting operations. Being a long time Engine Company member and Officer, this is what I have seen over the the years. The lighter ones typically would not be able to withstand some of the higher pressures from hydrants, whereas drafting operations would create a negative pressure within the hose.

Actually, while the drafting hose might look lighter, it's actually very heavy duty. The negative pressure it has to with withstand is tremendous, far more taxing than hydrant pressure. Hydrant pressure in the city ranges from 55psi in most places to 100psi in Staten Island (+/-). The 4" hydrant connection at the bottom could never withstand the vacuum effect of drafting operations.

[MoFire390 118]

Is FDNY planning to get more of these engines?

[M' Ave 1,466]

Is FDNY planning to get more of these engines?

34 Engine is the first of 8 (I believe) that have been ordered. They are replacements for the HP Engines already in service. To my knowledge, there are no additions to the HP unit assignment.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

M'ave, thanks for the information. I have a question, not geared to this particular rig. FDNY hose beds have always intrigued me. What is the standard hose load on a FDNY engine ? Does it change from Boro to Boro ? the tanks are L shaped, are they all 500 gallons ?

[M' Ave 1,466]

M'ave, thanks for the information. I have a question, not geared to this particular rig. FDNY hose beds have always intrigued me. What is the standard hose load on a FDNY engine ? Does it change from Boro to Boro ? the tanks are L shaped, are they all 500 gallons ?

The Regs do establish a standard compliment of hose and some modifications for winter operations. The Regs stipulate a total amount that must be carried, but companies do make modifications based on their response area. A standard hose bed might consist of the following:

2 beds are the same: 6 lengths of 1-3/4" on top of 10 lengths of 2-1/2". This gives you 2 16-length attack beds. More than 6 lengths of 1-3/4" is not permitted.

1 bed of 2-1/2" , 10 or 12 lengths. Attack line for commercial fires.

1 bed of 3-12", usually 10 lengths. This might be used to relay to another engine, supply a tower ladder or multi-versal or to inline pump from a hydrant.

3 lengths of 2-1/2" are kept as "roll-ups" for standpipe operations and are stored on the ledge below the suction on the chauffeurs side. One additional "roll-up" is stored in a compartment.

All engines have 500gal of water. (There might be some exceptions in remote parts of Staten Island where companies have 750gal tanks, but I'm not 100%)

[x635 4,066]

The top three are flexible hard suction, for drafting. That's why they're stored higher up, in the less accessible position. The bottom, smaller length isn't really suction. We CALL it soft suction, but it isn't rigid. It's is our go to hydrant connection, at least here in the Bronx and the areas of Manhattan I'm familiar with. It's 10' long and is flexible and foldable. It's easy and quick for the engine chauffeur to hook up alone. Once the hydrant is open, that 4" diameter length will expand to maintain its shape regardless of how it's bent.

Hope I'm giving the right visual to help out your awesome description....

[M' Ave 1,466]

Nice shots. That's it to a T. The gate on the 4" outlet we don't use, but when give permits, we try to put on the 2-1/2" gate. That allows the chauffer to self augment if necessary. The front intake is great for flexibility, but we usually try for the side inlets, that keeps the rig out of the road, allowing other rigs to pass, like a TL.

[Newburgher 241]

Not being very familiar with FDNY procedures, are these high pressure pumpers a regular engine company? Or, are they a special piece of apparatus that are staffed by the company they are quartered with when needed? My guess would be, they are staffed like all other engine companies, and have first due areas just like everyone else, but I don't know if that's the case. Thanks

[FireMedic049 597]

Not being very familiar with FDNY procedures, are these high pressure pumpers a regular engine company? Or, are they a special piece of apparatus that are staffed by the company they are quartered with when needed? My guess would be, they are staffed like all other engine companies, and have first due areas just like everyone else, but I don't know if that's the case. Thanks

They operate as regular engine companies.

[FS46 0]

I thought that FDNY new engines would be built by KME.

[x152 179]

I thought that FDNY new engines would be built by KME.

The high pressure engines were bid as a separate order than the standard engine bid.

Seagrave is building the high pressure rigs, KME is in the process of building the first of two split tilt cabs for the FDNY standard Engine order.

As already stated by M'Ave and others here, unlike "some" local FDs around here and their interpretation of a bidding process, it is all about the Benjamin's and KME was nearly 100k lower than Seagrave for the Engine bid.

The first KME rig is for FDNY acceptance.

The second is being built by KME for independent crash testing as this is new type of cab for KME.

KME is capable of filling large orders as their past track record with LA County and LA City would show, but the new design of the cab and acceptance/testing process has slowed their normal build time down a bit.

Time will tell what happens next.