Does FDNY Ride Metro North For Free?

[mvfire8989 22]

How you could even group a lawyer or doctor in with someone who is educated in true 'street' knowledge is beyond me. My father recently was in a hospital after a lengthy surgery, guess who picked up on his irregular breathing and adverse reaction to a blood transfusion, NOT the RN or Dr assigned to his care, I did.

Honestly you sound like someone who is jealous that those of us that do this for a living get certain perks for giving up a lot for our chosen profession. Your irrational train of thought (haha) is a perfect example of the current political climate towards our pensions that we not only deserve, but pay for!

I for one think think that police and fire are too totally different things. The stipulations for police riding free are justified, if they are armed and under a duty to respond. Once you start handing out free passes to fire/ems on the basis that they are most qualified if there is a medical emergency how do you justify that? Take this to the logical endpoint if you have a ER doc and EMT sitting next to each other on the train, both on their own time, how can you say that the graduate of a course that is a few hundred hours long compares to 7-8 years of medical education? Both have no legal duty to do anything, neither has equipment so I don't really see where your coming from at that point.

[everybodygoes 331]

Not sure where you went to EMT class but the duty to act was very descriptive where I took mine 14 years ago. And I would much rather have a well trained EMT or Medic over an ER Doc who has to rely on tests and machinery to complete their job. And all my friends who are physicians would never step in for fear of lawsuit when things go downhill. Only if it was family would they intervene.

[mvfire8989 22]

Not sure where you went to EMT class but the duty to act was very descriptive where I took mine 14 years ago. And I would much rather have a well trained EMT or Medic over an ER Doc who has to rely on tests and machinery to complete their job. And all my friends who are physicians would never step in for fear of lawsuit when things go downhill. Only if it was family would they intervene.

Sir, since you asked I've been an EMT for four years. In the interest of full disclosure I am also a medical student. In the State of NY there is no duty to act when you are not on duty. Please correct me if I am wrong but this document would seem to support this fact. The important part reads, "NYS statutes do not obligate an individual citizen, regardless of training, to respond to a situation or provide care unless there is a formal duty by job description or role expectation. Such a duty to act arises from participation with an agency having jurisdiction." Which I take to mean that if you are not at work you don't have the duty to act. The full document is here http://www.health.ny.gov/nysdoh/ems/pdf/98-05.pdf .

I am aware that there are many skilled prehospital providers out there, whom I would also trust my life to if necessary. However, I disagree that doctors need "tests and machinery" to act in a circumstance where an EMT would have no need for the same. The risk of lawsuit would also be no different, http://www.health.ny.gov/nysdoh/ems/art30.htm

"1. Except as provided in subdivision six of section six thousand six hundred eleven, subdivision two of section six thousand five hundred twenty-seven, subdivision one of section six thousand nine hundred nine and sections six thousand five hundred forty-seven and six thousand seven hundred thirty-seven of the education law, any person who voluntarily and without expectation of monetary compensation renders first aid or emergency treatment at the scene of an accident or other emergency outside a hospital, doctor's office or any other place having proper and necessary medical equipment, to a person who is unconscious, ill, or injured, shall not be liable for damages for injuries alleged to have been sustained by such person or for damages for the death of such person alleged to have occurred by reason of an act or omission in the rendering of such emergency treatment unless it is established that such injuries were or such death was caused by gross negligence on the part of such person. Nothing in this section shall be deemed or construed to relieve a licensed physician, dentist, nurse, physical therapist or registered physician's assistant from liability for damages for injuries or death caused by an act or omission on the part of such person while rendering professional services in the normal and ordinary course of his or her practice."

Given that both have no duty to act and equal protection from lawsuit and adequate training to respond to a situation when they have no equipment I see no reason for treating anyone differently.

[everybodygoes 331]

Right and although our criminal system is innocent till proven guilty, our civil side is guilty till proven innocent.

[FDNYDCHI 38]

I work for MNR and the only people that ride for "free" is MTAPD and Other Police officers, along with MNRR Employee's If you want to ride for free get a job with MNRR. \

It all depends on the conductors that are operating the train, other then that but your ticket, Why should a conductor risk his job and get jamed up just so you can say "I am on the job, and I don't want to buy a ticket".

Chris

[FFLieu 70]

_{OK everyone, the original post was whether FDNY can ride for free, which has been more than sufficiently answered by more than one person. It wasn't a thread to compare EMT qualifications, length of time as one, et al. Let's all put the rulers away - it's short, shriveled, and hangs to the left anyway.}

[ny10570 745]

I for one think think that police and fire are too totally different things. The stipulations for police riding free are justified, if they are armed and under a duty to respond. Once you start handing out free passes to fire/ems on the basis that they are most qualified if there is a medical emergency how do you justify that? Take this to the logical endpoint if you have a ER doc and EMT sitting next to each other on the train, both on their own time, how can you say that the graduate of a course that is a few hundred hours long compares to 7-8 years of medical education? Both have no legal duty to do anything, neither has equipment so I don't really see where your coming from at that point.

You hit the difference right there. Neither has their equipment. Who do you think is closer to their comfort zone? I get it a couple times a month where a doctor will try and step in and help on calls. For simplicity sake I try to just go along with it as long as they're not insisting on something I was not doing or about to do already. It rarely works out. They want tests I can't perform, history I can't obtain, or tools I don't have. It is doctors that I have pushing IV epi boluses in living patients. Doctors sticking things in seizing patients mouths. Even had a doctor looking for a knife so he could trach a diabetic he was convinced was choking. In the subway or on a bus, give me CFR/EMT/Medic any day over a doctor.

[SOUSGT 357]

If I remember correctly, the train passes for police officers were not the result of a change in policy by the MTA. A state Senator sponsored legislation that authorized the issuance of a pass. You had to apply through your department and it was issued to the officer and had to be renewed each year. It was only valid on MTA trains not NYC transit. Accepting the pass was conditional that you had to assist the conductor in the event of an emergency and if he requested your help.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I don't think anyone possessing skills that can help in an emergency should have to pay for gas. If you hear something going on within driving distance then drive to the incident and "assist."

Kidding

[Bnechis 3,961]

So some people think PO's should get a free ride, some think FD &/or EMS should. Their are pro's & cons to each. Now here is the irony; When MTA gives free rides, they are loosing money and yes they may be gaining safety/security. Now because MTA can not manage to balance its books, we have the MTA payroll tax. That means that on the New Haven Line in Westchester the Mt. Vernon PD & FD, Pelham PD & FD, Pelham Manor PD & FD, New Rochelle PD & FD, Larchmont PD & FD, Town of Mamaroneck PD & FD, Village of Mamaroneck PD, Harrison PD & FD, Rye PD & FD and Porchester PD all pay Metro North and provide the primary safety & security.

Now add all the other police and fire (career/combo) depts. in the counties covered by MTA are also paying them.

Now in the City of New Rochelle's case we are paying about $250,000/year to MTA. For that money we get to respond to all there EMS calls, the jambed elevators (over 100/year), the brush fires, etc. Our police are asked to cover till MTA PD can respond (no knock on MTA PD, they have a huge area to cover) and our DPW gets to plow the railroad access.

Most of MTA's safety and security is provided by the local PD, FD & EMS and we get to pay them for the honor.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

So some people think PO's should get a free ride, some think FD &/or EMS should. Their are pro's & cons to each. Now here is the irony; When MTA gives free rides, they are loosing money and yes they may be gaining safety/security. Now because MTA can not manage to balance its books, we have the MTA payroll tax. That means that on the New Haven Line in Westchester the Mt. Vernon PD & FD, Pelham PD & FD, Pelham Manor PD & FD, New Rochelle PD & FD, Larchmont PD & FD, Town of Mamaroneck PD & FD, Village of Mamaroneck PD, Harrison PD & FD, Rye PD & FD and Porchester PD all pay Metro North and provide the primary safety & security.

Now add all the other police and fire (career/combo) depts. in the counties covered by MTA are also paying them.

Now in the City of New Rochelle's case we are paying about $250,000/year to MTA. For that money we get to respond to all there EMS calls, the jambed elevators (over 100/year), the brush fires, etc. Our police are asked to cover till MTA PD can respond (no knock on MTA PD, they have a huge area to cover) and our DPW gets to plow the railroad access.

Most of MTA's safety and security is provided by the local PD, FD & EMS and we get to pay them for the honor.

And why again do we do this? Is this accessed directly from NR to MTA or is this paid to the state via taxes then funnelled to the MTA?

[CFD320 35]

No, we do not ride for free... MNRR conductors no longer have discretion, and they are watched on a regular basis.

[EMT-7035 4]

It can be a professional courtesy like is occasionally extended to us as mentioned, by businesses and well as fellow MOS. However, while everyone appreciates these gestures, they are exactly that, just courteous gestures and should never be expected or implied. I'm sure most if not all of us have had times where being an MOS has helped with taxes, discounts or others, and more often than not, it was a surprise. But it's not why we do the job, nor should it be.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Do yourself a favor and pay the full fair for your ride. Pay for the MTA with something other than your taxes...

[Bnechis 3,961]

And why again do we do this? Is this accessed directly from NR to MTA or is this paid to the state via taxes then funnelled to the MTA?

We do this because Albany past a law saying we have to.

The state accesses all employeers based on the number of employees (and I believe amount paid) and gives that money to the MTA. It is a line item in our budget.

[ny10570 745]

The state has a hard time explaining the benefits of mass transit in the NYC suburbs to the rest of its constituents. So they continue to cut the money for the MTA in the state budget. One stop gap was this payroll tax on any community served by the MTA. There was also an MTA tax on vehicle registration recently to bail the MTA out of a hole the state dropped the ball on.

[JFLYNN 681]

The sense of entitlement and self importance expressed by many of the posters on this thread is, unfortunately, not surprising. We are public servants, not the other way around guys. A fair days pay for a fair days work. Or, in the case of volunteers- volunteer, which means to do something with no expectation of compensation.

In my opinion. if there is a clearly advertised "deal" or "discount" for Fire / EMS / Police, go ahead and take it. If you need to ask for it, or persuade (aka intimidate, embarass or coerce) someone to give it to you, you have demeaned yourself and discredited your profession.

It is heartening to see from reading this thread that I am not alone in my feelings on this.

Edited April 13, 2012 by JFLYNN

[FFLieu 70]

And, it should be limited to PD only, anyway.

[antiquefirelt 994]

In my opinion. if there is a clearly advertised "deal" or "discount" for Fire / EMS / Police, go ahead and take it. If you need to ask for it, or persuade (aka intimidate, embarass or coerce) someone to give it to you, you have demeaned yourself and discredited your profession.

It is heartening to see from reading this thread that I am not alone in my feelings on this.

Chief, nice to see you pop in again, and a great post as usual. I have been reading this thread with some interest really based on reading posters views on ethical behavior, I could care less about the NY mass transit system up here. Chief Flynn's point should be taken to heart by every member in every situation where you're "given" some sort of "special treatment". We work for the public, thus benefits such as those being discussed here are paid for by them. For every free rider the rest of the paying customers must pay a little more.

Locally we have a parts store that gives MOS a 15% break on all parts. I recently had the pleasure of needing parts and went in after leaving work and was wearing a job shirt. Upon check out I was told I was being given a discount for being a FD member, which I graciously declined to no avail. The clerk noted they do this for all emergency services personnel and that oddly enough the career FD personnel always attempt to decline and are very gracious, whereas many others show up in street clothes and demand the discount, making complete asses of themselves and their department (fire/EMS/PD whatever). There are many other places that will try and offer similar discounts, and e hope the response from our members is to graciously decline and explain just what JFLYNN posted, in the long run this will serve your dept better.

[dadbo46 50]

The state has a hard time explaining the benefits of mass transit in the NYC suburbs to the rest of its constituents. So they continue to cut the money for the MTA in the state budget. One stop gap was this payroll tax on any community served by the MTA. There was also an MTA tax on vehicle registration recently to bail the MTA out of a hole the state dropped the ball on.

.......and the County must contribute over $ 25,000,000 a year to the MTA for Metro-North Station Maintenance and general railroad operating costs.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

So some people think PO's should get a free ride, some think FD &/or EMS should. Their are pro's & cons to each. Now here is the irony; When MTA gives free rides, they are loosing money and yes they may be gaining safety/security. Now because MTA can not manage to balance its books, we have the MTA payroll tax. That means that on the New Haven Line in Westchester the Mt. Vernon PD & FD, Pelham PD & FD, Pelham Manor PD & FD, New Rochelle PD & FD, Larchmont PD & FD, Town of Mamaroneck PD & FD, Village of Mamaroneck PD, Harrison PD & FD, Rye PD & FD and Porchester PD all pay Metro North and provide the primary safety & security.

Now add all the other police and fire (career/combo) depts. in the counties covered by MTA are also paying them.

Now in the City of New Rochelle's case we are paying about $250,000/year to MTA. For that money we get to respond to all there EMS calls, the jambed elevators (over 100/year), the brush fires, etc. Our police are asked to cover till MTA PD can respond (no knock on MTA PD, they have a huge area to cover) and our DPW gets to plow the railroad access.

Most of MTA's safety and security is provided by the local PD, FD & EMS and we get to pay them for the honor.

Don't forget Cap, you might also get the honor of having to go out there and untangle a major catastrophe. MVFD had to do it. Can happen anywhere.

There have been so many interesting opinions about this topic. I think it's important to mention, there has been a big cultural change regarding the trains. Going back not so long ago, commuter trains were a big growth industry. Conductors had great contracts, overtime was flush as were the coffers at the train HQs.

THEN the financial squeeze hit train lines. That and technology, ie; the ticket machine, changed the culture of riding.

Used to be a conductor carried wads of cash, tons of punched paper tickets, etc. Conductors started getting squeezed, their discretion was basically taken away.

Truth be told; there were certain days when train cars were full to the brim with MOS on particular celebratory days. Conductors smiled, laughed and closed the door to the car so the cigar smoke didn't bother the regulars.

Yes there were days like that. But those days are long gone.