What Constitutes A Rescue Company In Westchester?

[x635 4,066]

I snipped this excellent post from another thread, thought it would make for a good discussion. Hope you don't mind, Kurt.

Ah, but what constitutes a rescue in Westchester? Some are rescues in name only, since they have a hydraulic rescue tool on them, and might be better designated as an engine. Outside of New Rochelle and Yonkers, who in Westchester has a rescue that can compare with FDNY in terms of equipment, training, and tool selection?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

RESCUE COMPANY

Valid Prefix

(RES = Rescue Vehicle)

A support vehicle, not designed for patient transport but contains tools for

life support, extrication, emergency medical care

MISCELLANIOUS

Valid Prefix

(UTL = Utility)

A vehicle that does not fall under any of the above categories will be

designated a utility vehicle. This designation may or may not include vehicles designed to transport personnel,

carry specialized equipment (air, lights, foam, etc.).

CAR / SUPPORT

Valid Prefix

(CAR = Command/Support)

A vehicle that provides officer, personnel, or fire investigation the means of

transportation or support functions to a fire or EMS incident.

http://emergencyservices.westchestergov.com/divisions/communications/60-control-/forms-and-listings (Forms and Listings)

Edited December 21, 2011 by SRS131EMTFF

[grumpyff 1,159]

I dont mind at all. Just re-reading what I wrote, and I would have to add manpower. Equipment and tool selction are kind of the same thing.

Not picking on anyone, but speaking from what I know. Pleasantville R47 compares in no way a rescue. Originally its radio designation was Patrol 7, which when eliminated by Westchester County became a rescue because it had a hydraulic rescue tool. The current R47 has a 2000 gpm pump 750 gallons of water, a generator and light tower. When I left in 2005, there was discussions on obtaining air bags. Not sure if this was followed thru. Most of the other equiptment outside of the first aid and defibrillator would be at home on any engine. CO meter, a multi gas meter, heat gun, fans , etc. should this unit really be designated a rescue? What is the requirement in Westchester to be designated a rescue? While I was there we took training seriously, and were constantly looking for new training.

Edited December 21, 2011 by grumpyff

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

What Constitutes A Rescue Company In Westchester?

Sometimes nothing more than some fancy lettering on the side of a rig and some T-shirts purchased in bulk with RESCUE scrawled on the back.

p.s. Not going to name any names as to not offend the offenders.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Bull McCaffrey

[yanks4ever1320 6]

Speaking with knowledge of Montrose R-51, it carries hydraulic tools, EMS equipment, air struts, high and low pressure air bags, winches, rope rescue equipment, torches, a light tower and some other misc equipment. maybe with all the tools it carries you can considered it a rescue.

[mfc2257 464]

The question was what constitutes a rescue company, not a rescue truck. Please please please DO NOT confuse a rescue company with a department that has a rescue truck.

[ny10570 745]

47 is a great example. They were never intended to be a rescue company, but became one as a result of a bureaucratic technicality.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

47 is a great example. They were never intended to be a rescue company, but became one as a result of a bureaucratic technicality.

Is it a great example? If it has a 2000 GPM pump, 750 gallons of water..hose..and a hydraulic tool...in my book and most others that's simply...an engine with extrication equipment. Sounds more like choice of having a rescue tag on an apparatus then bureaucratic technicality. Not trying to offend anyone..but call it what it sounds or is. If the Patrol tag no longer existed in the new CAD system...it is what it is. The county could use a much more uniformed numbering system as it is similar to what most counties around it does by classification. They don't care what it does...there were a few telesquirts in the county when the CAD no longer had that designation either. So most switched to an engine designation...not ladder.

Fuzz...the problem is many with a rescue truck in a bay..call themselves a rescue company.

[grumpyff 1,159]

ALS,

At the time of the redesignation, we still had our 80 Hahn with 1000 gpm and 500 gallons. It also had a hurst tool, but no supply hose, just 2 crosslays. IIRC we had no say as what the county was going to designate us as. The current 47 does have some supply hose now. A squad designation may have been better, since at the time we in the company filled in both engine and ladder company operations as needed.

There are other examples out there, there was one 'rescue' that was a 12 passenger van, others that were ambulances, etc. When the county changed designations some were corrected.

[DR104 141]

Rescue 88 City of White Plains. 24 hours a day 7 days a week. And yes its is a Rescue company

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I dont mind at all. Just re-reading what I wrote, and I would have to add manpower. Equipment and tool selction are kind of the same thing.

Not picking on anyone, but speaking from what I know. Pleasantville R47 compares in no way a rescue. Originally its radio designation was Patrol 7, which when eliminated by Westchester County became a rescue because it had a hydraulic rescue tool. The current R47 has a 2000 gpm pump 750 gallons of water, a generator and light tower. When I left in 2005, there was discussions on obtaining air bags. Not sure if this was followed thru. Most of the other equiptment outside of the first aid and defibrillator would be at home on any engine. CO meter, a multi gas meter, heat gun, fans , etc. should this unit really be designated a rescue? What is the requirement in Westchester to be designated a rescue? While I was there we took training seriously, and were constantly looking for new training.

What is the requirement anywhere? I have seen pick up trucks being designated as "Light Rescues," who decides?

47 is a great example. They were never intended to be a rescue company, but became one as a result of a bureaucratic technicality.

This is true, the rig was not intended to be a Rescue but rather a Patrol.

Is it a great example? If it has a 2000 GPM pump, 750 gallons of water..hose..and a hydraulic tool...in my book and most others that's simply...an engine with extrication equipment. Sounds more like choice of having a rescue tag on an apparatus then bureaucratic technicality. Not trying to offend anyone..but call it what it sounds or is. If the Patrol tag no longer existed in the new CAD system...it is what it is. The county could use a much more uniformed numbering system as it is similar to what most counties around it does by classification. They don't care what it does...there were a few telesquirts in the county when the CAD no longer had that designation either. So most switched to an engine designation...not ladder.

Fuzz...the problem is many with a rescue truck in a bay..call themselves a rescue company.

Not saying that the rig compares to an FDNY rescue, but hydraulic tools are no the only "rescue" tool on the rig. We have FAST equipment, rope rescue equipment, Res-Q-Jaks, ice rescue equipment, cribbing, airbags, winch, etc. There has been talk of in the future switching to the designation of Squad. As mentioned, the tag of Rescue was not a company decision...the company is not called the Rescue Company, it is the Patrol Company (Pleasantville Fire Patrol).

Does a rescue have to be a heavy rescue?

Edited December 21, 2011 by PFDRes47cue

[FirNaTine 370]

Rescue Co.? A Rescue that's in service 24/7/365 with at least 3 men and an Officer that are well trained in Special OPS. The only Depts. in Westchester that provide this is White Plains and Yonkers. However I wouldn't take a rig out of service to keep a Rescue in service which I believe WPFD has done. To me that makes no sense. While on this topic those Depts. that due have 4 man Rescue Cos. which are in service everyday are the guys on it required to mutual out with only other Rescue members assigned to it or can any Tom, Dick and Harry jump on board for the ride and does the same apply for an OT member needed to be assigned to it?

[Jybehofd 85]

The question was what constitutes a rescue company, not a rescue truck. Please please please DO NOT confuse a rescue company with a department that has a rescue truck.

This is what Westchester county needs to meet a rescue

RESCUE COMPANY

Valid Prefix

(RES = Rescue Vehicle)

A support vehicle, not designed for patient transport but contains tools for

life support, extrication, emergency medical care

beyond that its what the individual department defines a rescue as. I wonder what the FITCH report would be if they did fire services in westchester county.

[Newburgher 241]

I thought it was just a bunch of Truckies who are afraid of heights.

[ny10570 745]

This is true, the rig was not intended to be a Rescue but rather a Patrol.

The rig you are so familiar with was designed to be a first due engine for all of PFD's incidents. Ego's got in the way of that plan, but that's for another thread.

As kurt pointed out, it was the Hahn, that even though it had one of the better pumps in the dept couldn't be called an engine.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

The rig you are so familiar with was designed to be a first due engine for all of PFD's incidents. Ego's got in the way of that plan, but that's for another thread.

As kurt pointed out, it was the Hahn, that even though it had one of the better pumps in the dept couldn't be called an engine.

What's an ego???

[JohnnyOV 2]

Not saying that the rig compares to an FDNY rescue, but hydraulic tools are no the only "rescue" tool on the rig. We have FAST equipment, rope rescue equipment, Res-Q-Jaks, ice rescue equipment, cribbing, airbags, winch, etc. There has been talk of in the future switching to the designation of Squad.

Pretty sure a to be designated a "Squad" you need to have a minimum staffing of 5 firemen and an Officer (edit: inputted "all") all trained in Hazmat technician (level A suit entry and decon) / WMD response, technical rescue technician trained in structural collapse, confined space, trench rescue. Anything other then that, and you're still just a "Rescue."

Edited December 21, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[Bnechis 3,961]

Pretty sure a to be designated a "Squad" you need to have a minimum staffing of 5 firemen and an Officer (edit: inputted "all") all trained in Hazmat technician (level A suit entry and decon) / WMD response, technical rescue technician trained in structural collapse, confined space, trench rescue.

The training requirement is Hazmat/WMD Technician OR Technical Rescue Technician. The intent was a squad was an engine co. with either hazmat or rescue equipment.

Many of the 700 members that were trained for this did both, but the equipment was divided up based on mission.

[MoFire390 118]

been looking for the NFPA requirement of a rescue truck. but for some reason cant find it. i know its stated in NFPA 1901-2009 standards.

[Guest problEMS]

been looking for the NFPA requirement of a rescue truck. but for some reason cant find it. i know its stated in NFPA 1901-2009 standards.

MoFire, I think you might be missing the point of the thread. They aren't asking for the standards for equipment on a rescue truck. They are looking for the standard of manning and training requirement of that manpower on the apparatus, across the board in Westchester County. All the fancy equipment in the world is useless without capable personnel to use it when the need arises. A rescue company is a total different thing than a rescue truck.

Unfortunatly, the need to have the newest and shiniest apparatus and equipment to flaunt in parades has taken the focus off the need for manpower with skills and knowledge capable to use that equipment successfully.

[MoFire390 118]

MoFire, I think you might be missing the point of the thread. They aren't asking for the standards for equipment on a rescue truck. They are looking for the standard of manning and training requirement of that manpower on the apparatus, across the board in Westchester County. All the fancy equipment in the world is useless without capable personnel to use it when the need arises. A rescue company is a total different thing than a rescue truck.

Unfortunatly, the need to have the newest and shiniest apparatus and equipment to flaunt in parades has taken the focus off the need for manpower with skills and knowledge capable to use that equipment successfully.

was acutally looking to answer some of the other questions that were asked on here. but since u just so happened to quote me i guess i will add what i think.

1. i thought that FDNY Rescue companies do alot of specialty work such as tech rescue, and could be utlized as a truck company to do search and rescue at a fire.

2. i see where this is gonna lead, and like every other topic its gonna come down to paid vs vollie. because vollies dont have as much training as career staff. it gets kinda old and seems to be popping up more and more frequently. i know im not the only one tired of seeing it.

[JohnnyOV 2]

2. i see where this is gonna lead, and like every other topic its gonna come down to paid vs vollie. because vollies dont have as much training as career staff. it gets kinda old and seems to be popping up more and more frequently. i know im not the only one tired of seeing it.

Then do something about it. Insist that FASNY lobbies and NYS follows through increasing the training requirements of volunteer firemen. We're our own worst enemy sometimes.

[FFEMT150 214]

was acutally looking to answer some of the other questions that were asked on here. but since u just so happened to quote me i guess i will add what i think.

1. i thought that FDNY Rescue companies do alot of specialty work such as tech rescue, and could be utlized as a truck company to do search and rescue at a fire.

2. i see where this is gonna lead, and like every other topic its gonna come down to paid vs vollie. because vollies dont have as much training as career staff. it gets kinda old and seems to be popping up more and more frequently. i know im not the only one tired of seeing it.

I don't see this becoming a "paid vs. vollie" thread, It is a thread about rescue companies, so lets not make it one. It is true that a career rescue company will train more than a vollie dept. because that is their job. They are a rescue company. They also have the time to train more seeing as they are paid to be at the station, and as a vollie, I am paid to be at my office.

The question I have is this, is there a "true" volunteer rescue company in westchester or are the department member cross trained as they are in my vollie department?

[Guest problEMS]

was acutally looking to answer some of the other questions that were asked on here. but since u just so happened to quote me i guess i will add what i think.

1. i thought that FDNY Rescue companies do alot of specialty work such as tech rescue, and could be utlized as a truck company to do search and rescue at a fire.

2. i see where this is gonna lead, and like every other topic its gonna come down to paid vs vollie. because vollies dont have as much training as career staff. it gets kinda old and seems to be popping up more and more frequently. i know im not the only one tired of seeing it.

QTIP, if you look at my profile you will see I am a volunteer just like you. I am not trying to turn it into anything it isn't. I'm just realistic. While some may think it sounds cool for people to call themselves a "rescue company" lets be honest. Very few if any volunteer departments in Westchester are "staffed" with the adequate amount of trained personnel. Having 4 FFs and a Chaffeur, when responding, and of those 4 FFs- 1 is interior(adequately trained), 2 are exterior and the last is a junior member. This does not make up a "Rescue Company"

And I think that is what the thread was getting at, that there is a lack of adequatly trained personnel to sufficiently staff the Rescue apparatus in Westchester county. It takes more than just a Rescue truck in your station to make you a "rescue company"

There is even a career department here in Westchester that doesnt fulfill the requirement to be considered a "Squad" according to Capt Nechis' definition, but has a squad designation. So the only people turning this into a "career vs. vollie" argument is ourselves. Staffing problems go beyond that of career or volunteer.

If for what ever reason you feel the need to get defensive then you must have an underlying feeling that your department is defficient in supplying an adequate number of trained personnel. I am not coming out and saying that Montrose has an issue with adequately trained personnel just that if its member is so quick to jump on the defense then there must be a reason for it.

MoFire, The only reason I quoted you is because it seemed to me that you were searching for information that wasnt what the original thread was speaking about.

Edited December 21, 2011 by problEMS

[rescue40 30]

This doesn't have to be a paid vs volly topic. No doubt a career dept can staff and equip a rescue company that is trained to the gills. They have the time during there shifts for all the training. I'm in port chester in the rescue company and yes we are a volunteer heavy rescue. All of our members are at min FF1, more than half our FF2, several state instructors, haz-mat trained, and every member has AVET. more than half the membership is FAST certified also we push as much training as we can but as you all know in the volunteer world its hard to get some guys to commit. Our biggest problem in our company is lack of equitment. being the only rescue, our tool and equit lists are sometimes not taken well. It's much more simple for them to buy hose and ground ladders and axes etc but when it comes to struts and bags and wet suits, hurst tools, hand tools, FAST tools etc theres a price tag that goes with them and the price vs need starts to come out.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Two basic issues: What is a Rescue Company and what is a Rescue Unit?

The Rescue Company is equipment (including transport) AND enough trained personnel that respond together and can perform a particular rescue function.

How much personnel is needed? This depends on the incident. FDNY has the best Rescue Staffing and their are many incidents that require additional Rescues, or trucks or squads to assist them.

The Rescue Truck. We have an issue because in Westchester a Rescue can be a regular van or a 24' tandum axle unit.

What is a Rescue? A light Rescue? Medium? Heavy?

If you own a 20'+ walk in rescue, but basicly only have the equipment to handle an MVA its not a "heavy rescue". A line I always get a kick out of is "Heavy Rescue is the capability of the company not the weight of the chassie"

We have truck companies that carry what I would equate to as the equipment for a light rescue unit (spreader, cutter, rams, cribbing, airbags, jacks and basic rope equipment). I have seen large rescues that do not carry much more. Infact often I see they do not carry enough basic cribbing to handle a car underride of a truck or school bus).

My 1st question to a chief when laying out a new rescue is what type of rescue calls do you plan on operating at?

Fire, MVA, Machinery, Water (surface, swift/flood, Ice, dive), heavy transport (truck, bus, train, aircraft, etc.), confined space, high angle, trench, building collapse, etc.

You can not carry everything you need on 1 vehicle to handle all of the above. This unit may respond to all of them, but you must decide what equipment you will put on this unit. And if you can't carry it, who does?

Much of this debate would go away if 60 Control had a list (that everyone saw) that listed rescues by capability (in terms of type of incidents).

As listed in the squad description, we also need to determine what staffing (including minimum training levels) needs to respond (FEMA calls this typing) with each type of unit (engine, ladder, rescue, etc.).

Also lets not get hung up with how many responders can ride in the rescue. Whats important is how many arrive with it and can operate as a company. There are many 2 seat heavy rescues, but they get another 4-6 responders in another vehicle.

[jack10562 414]

Barry, that is some substantial progression in the department's rolling stock rescue capabilities over time.

I'm going to guess it was in the neighborhood of roughly a 20+ year evolution?

Kudos to all those responsible for that.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry, that is some substantial progression in the department's rolling stock rescue capabilities over time.

I'm going to guess it was in the neighborhood of roughly a 20+ year evolution?

Kudos to all those responsible for that.

Thanks.

The R4 Dodge Van (there were a couple of them over the years) was what we had when I started. It was scary to drive since it was overloaded and had no cargo cage (If you stopped short, you would get the Jaws in the bak of your head).

In the 1950's we had a Civil Defense Rig

In 1991 we got our 1st "real" rescue

Shown above as Rescue 54 - Collapse Unit (which it was converted into after the 2009 SVI unit was purchased

R-54 & R-4 are full and while we dont have the ability to staff these units, the crews at Sta. #1 (and others) train regularly with both).

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I love the Civil Defense logo. Reminds me of the radio system we had in our rigs back in the 46.26 days. Warm up them tubes before the 8:15 AM radio test! lol

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. ISO 1 Department. Don't know what the staffing level was.

Eastchester had, for decades, an under-equipped Rescue "Company" with a Chauffeur, occasionally a step-man. Lots of unused space in the compartments.

The Beast Brockway. Once again, under-equipped, under-staffed. An ISO report dating back to the 1950's recommended a flying squad of seven firefighters to staff this and the former rig. Perfect example of how a fire district can suffer because of the limitations the district can impose on the tax levy. This rig would show up, and the chauffeur would disembark....."where is everybody?" was a common response from the residents....

And now Eastchester has no Rescue Company. They have a Rescue-Pumper with tools, and they have the RIT equipment, last I know of, on the Ladder Tower.

Sorry I forgot, they also have the Squad equipment from South Westchester Special Ops. EFD is actually much better off equipment wise than it was just ten years ago.

Edited December 22, 2011 by efdcapt115