Merger of Westchester police, emergency services put in doubt

[Truck4 48]

County Executive Astorino is proposing consolidation of DES and the Department of Public Safety to save $3 million over 3 years:

"Department of Emergency Services would be folded into the Department of Public Safety, with Longworth as its commissioner. The new department would have three divisions, each headed by a deputy commissioner: emergency services, to be headed by Sutton; fire services, to be headed by John Cullen, who is now a deputy commissioner for DES; and police services, to be headed by Joseph Yasinski, now deputy commissioner for DPS."

http://www3.westchestergov.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2774:astorino-proposes-consolidation-of-public-safety-and-emergency-services-departments&catid=74:news&Itemid=300137

[FFEMT150 214]

this might be intresting...does this mean more layoffs?

[Monty 35]

..... create savings in communications, special operations, training and grant administration. For example:

* Both departments now have communication centers. DES has an Emergency Communications Center ("60 Control") and DPS has its own communications center. Combined communications would enable a more unified response to emergencies as well as save money.

* Both departments currently have special teams to deal with hazardous devices and materials. DPS has a Hazardous Devices Unit (Bomb Squad) that is trained to handle chemical, biological, radiological and explosive devices, while DES has a hazardous materials response team. Combining these units would eliminate redundancy and improve coordination and response time.

* Currently DES and DPS have adjacent training facilities, which they run autonomously. A single facility would produce operational and cost efficiencies and allow for broader and better coordinated training programs.

* Both departments apply for, receive and administer grants for counter-terrorism. Particularly because grants are likely to be decreasing, a unified approach will better serve the public and ensure that the limited dollars are spent the best way.

Obviously as a press release, this has the spin applied to it. It also generates a lot of questions. I did come from a sizable town upstate where communications handled fire, police and ems - and worked well, not sure how likely it would be to integrate those divisions.

Will be interesting to see how the hazmat teams are merged, DES is basically volunteer. Replacing / supplementing the volunteers would add manpower costs, although in theory you can bill for hazmat responses (if is a hazmat incident and not just a suspected incident).

I guess there's some time to get this all sorted out before Jan 1.

[helicopper 1,050]

Obviously as a press release, this has the spin applied to it. It also generates a lot of questions. I did come from a sizable town upstate where communications handled fire, police and ems - and worked well, not sure how likely it would be to integrate those divisions.

Will be interesting to see how the hazmat teams are merged, DES is basically volunteer. Replacing / supplementing the volunteers would add manpower costs, although in theory you can bill for hazmat responses (if is a hazmat incident and not just a suspected incident).

I guess there's some time to get this all sorted out before Jan 1.

From what I've heard - and this is by no means official - positions eliminated at the outset would be administrative through attrition and reassignment. No layoffs are being talked about right now.

Communications wouldn't necessarily "merge" but could benefit from standardized equipment, a co-located facility, etc. I haven't heard them talking about fire/EMS dispatching police or vice-versa at this point.

Who says they're replacing the existing haz-mat team volunteers with paid people? I haven't heard that anywhere.

I'm sure there will be some ripples in the pond initially but in the long run I think this will actually be a good thing. DPS has lots of personnel and DES has lots of other resources; putting them together might be a very good combination for everybody.

[Remember585 815]

Some of my colleagues have talked about this, and we are looking forward to our aviation and marine unit details in the Summer!

[61MACKBR1 222]

This, in my opinion, is a great start. Redundcy of several agencies, not only within the County of Westchester's own governmental services, but throughout the municipalities that make up Westchester County, could indeed save tax payers allot of money. Not only does the consolidation of the DPS and the DES make sense, but if Asterino would look deeper into each City, Town, and Village that have services that could benefit through consolidation/regionalization/ and shared services, thus would result, again in my opinon, a stronger unified service to the public, while saving the tax payers money. I feel that there would be no reduction in the rank n' file of the services provided, but Executive Positions within the EMS, Police, Fire and DPW could be consolidated and thus would reduce/ellminate several high priced executive positions within each of the City/Town/Village Police, Fire, DPW and EMS Services, thus, again, saving taxpayer dollars.

We need our Policeman, Fireman, Emergency Medical Professionals and Sanitation Service Professionals. But we don't need are the redundent amount of Police Commissioners, Fire Commissioners and Chiefs, Emergency Service Executives and DPW Chiefs, all of whom are very highly paid and really only work in a High Priced Administrative Capacity. What we don't need are a glut of "Chiefs" but what we need are a "Boatload" of "Indians" to provide the services that everyone in Westchester County needs.

[petervonb 9]

Communications wouldn't necessarily "merge" but could benefit from standardized equipment, a co-located facility, etc. I haven't heard them talking about fire/EMS dispatching police or vice-versa at this point.

Hey, they could co-locate with the TMC (Traffic Management Center) at the State Police Barracks.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Sounds like a pretty good idea. Works great for a lot of other departments out in the Midwest.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Hey, they could co-locate with the TMC (Traffic Management Center) at the State Police Barracks.

Good thing DPS just completed a $2m+ upgrade of its communication system. I agree that dispatch should be merged at the TMC. Cellular 911 will continue to rise and thats where they come into.

The question is what savings in consolidation will be wiped out the moment you have to build the dispatch facility?

[Mofire24 27]

I will stay in our nice new room not move to the TMC I don't see anything happening with merging dispatch anytime soon there is not even space enough to put both PD dispatch and fire control in the same place

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Time will tell how well on how some things are going to be merged and if they will be planned or wait for them to have to be dealt with by accident. I'm obviously interested in the training facilities as they are right next door to each other and would be happy if we all were able to utilize classroom space as needed to increase training delivered.

In regards to dispatching I think there is more flexibility to renovate the space where 60 control is to facilitate a combination of resources there. Dutchess 911 does very well with handling this type of set up as the Sheriff's department is on 1 location and the 911 center in another. All of their dispatchers are training for handling fire/police/ems call taking and assignments and they rotate through which they handled when not just call taking.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm never one to shun change and only time will tell.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

How will this merger affect members on the ground? What changes will we as first responders see on a day to day basis in the field if this merger takes place?

[irishfire2491 24]

Some of my colleagues have talked about this, and we are looking forward to our aviation and marine unit details in the Summer!

haha get in line john

[EXDC203 38]

Is this going full circle? Fire dispatch started in County Police HQ!

[chiefhac 130]

To: Members of the Westchester County Fire Service

From: Henry A. Campbell

I urge you to be informed about the proposed Consolidation of the Westchester County Department of Public Safety and Department of Emergency Services.

Read the Proposal, see attachment, and make your decision as to whether this will be a positive undertaking for the fire service, or detrimental to what you presently have.

A few questions to ask yourself:

Is it a consolidation, a merger, or a take over?

How will it make emergency services better and at what cost?

How will the broader chain of command impact overall operations? Who is in charge?

Think about overtime and call back expenses that may not be figured into the proposal.

How will grant monies and equipment be disbursed?

Is the information provided in the report adequate, accurate or misleading?

Where will the most positions be eliminated?

Don't be afraid to discuss this with other members of your department, other departments, and Westchester Fire Organizations.

Move slowly, ask questions, get answers, then make an informed decision as to whether the fire service should support, or not support the proposed consolidation.

Read the attached report and share it and this e-mail with others.

[chiefhac 130]

Copy of Proposed Westchester Consolidation of DEP and DES

I have managed to reduce the size of the file and hope the attachment comes through

chiefhac

[Bnechis 3,961]

First of 5 parts of the proposal

8-10-10ConsolidationProposalDPSDES 1-5.pdf

Part 2 pages 6-10

8-10-10ConsolidationProposalDPSDES 6-10.pdf

Part 3 pages 11-15

8-10-10ConsolidationProposalDPSDES 11-15.pdf

Part 4 pages 16-20

8-10-10ConsolidationProposalDPSDES 16-20.pdf

Final part. page 21-23

8-10-10ConsolidationProposalDPSDES 21-23.pdf

Sorry its so big, but there is a lot of "info" (feel free to read "info" in other words).

Special thanks to ChiefHAC for bringing this to our attention. As he pointed out, if you have issues with this, make a stink. They have one shot to get this correct or we will be stuck with it for 20 years.

Edited August 20, 2010 by jack10562
Merged posts

[Lucifer 6]

Merge or Takeover???

[20y2 43]

Looks like it is an administrative merging. Good.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

The Board of Legislators Committee on Government Reform, Efficiency and Savings will begin

discussing this proposal on Tuesday August 24th at 11:30 (148 Martine Ave, 8th floor, White

Plains).

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I must say, the idea of merging the Bomb Squad and HAZMAT teams sounds smart the way they presented it. The HAZMAT team would then be significantly more "all-hazard" capable, including having tactical response, decon, EOD, mass decon, etc all covered.

[PEMO3 523]

I must say, the idea of merging the Bomb Squad and HAZMAT teams sounds smart the way they presented it. The HAZMAT team would then be significantly more "all-hazard" capable, including having tactical response, decon, EOD, mass decon, etc all covered.

After taking the time to read the document it does appear to be one sided with a "Crystal Palace" empirical look at how things would work in a "perfect world". But we all know it is far from a perfect world. Through out the document it consistantly states that DES is providing a duplication of DPS services. It never states that DPS is duplicating DES services. One section relating to HazMat that seemed to be through rose colored glasses was the text

"Under a consolidated DPS, the HMRT will be an arm of the DPS Hazardous Devices Unit (formerly known as the Bomb Squad). The Hazardous Devices Unit will respond to all potential CBRNE incidents and utilize available volunteers of the HMRT to support its operations. This should significantly reduce response times to CBRNE in Westchester County and ensure that resources are used efficiently and effectively."

If we thought the paid/volunteer issue was always raising its ugly head here combine that with Paid PD/Volunteer FD and what how it plays out.

[Remember585 815]

I'm reading this before the Sun comes up, so bare with me.

WCPD (or DPS) is an awesome agency that has always struck me as proactive and aggressive when it comes to planning and coordination in Westchester County. I've participated in training exercises and worked at many incidents with the DPS and in plain english, they've got their s#it together. As a fire chief, I know I will catch crap for saying this, but I don't think any other organization around the county has a better grasp of the incident management system. During major incidents, they show up, size things up and establish not only a command presence, but implement an action plan in a timely manner. I think their expertise on hazard and disaster recognition and planning mixed with the response knowledge and capabilities of DES could result in an amazing organization poised to respond to major emergencies in Westchester County.

But, by eliminating some positions, doesn't this threaten the span of control in some areas? And what happens after some positions are eliminated, and they come to realize that perhaps they were beneficial? Will they bring them back, or out of pride will they keep them vacant and make some perform dual roles?

I have seen counties that have all services under one umbrella that work. I have also seen them fail or come up short. What concerns me is the vibe I get in this proposal - it feels more like a takeover then it does a merger. All references in the proposal seem one-sided from DPS on how they can absorb DES and make it run smoother and more efficiently. In many ways, I think that this has great potential, but something also tells me that we may see it deplete / ruin certain things that many people worked hard to accomplish.

As for consolidating communications, this isn't a bad concept. The bigger issue would be to have one central communications center that handles everything in every community, with the exception of the larger cities (if so desired). People don't realize how inefficient it is now to have 911 calls go to one place, then get transferred to another - which sometimes goes to the wrong place or doesn't happen. I personally feel that if we can consolidate DPS and 60 Control communications centers, that we should eventually assume the responsibility of answering cellular 911 as well. The TMC already transfers many police requests to WCPD, and fire/EMS requests come to 60 Control (majority of the time). When a call is in an unknown area or outside of Westchester, many times they transfer it to us to "figure out" and send to the proper agency (IE: FDNY, Rockland, Putnam, Nassau, Suffolk, etc.). With the CAD system we have, we can handle this almost seemlessly. If you add the knowledge of the DPS communications personnel, Westchester County could have one of the best communications centers in the country. (IMHO)

Time will tell, I just hope that every aspect is looked at beyond it's cost efficiency shock value.

(Now I will go hide because I am sure someone will jump down my throat for speaking my mind...)

[efdcapt115 1,511]

The Section 708 EPG funding @$750,000 in 2010, "expect it will continue at the higher amount over at least the next several years." Is this Fed money or state? Is 708 Grant money applied for like AFG or SAFER? What happens to this plan if the 708 money shrinks or disappears? It also appears part of the plan is to consolidate the grants departments? Does that make for more efficient grant application, or loss of talent?

[helicopper 1,050]

The Section 708 EPG funding @$750,000 in 2010, "expect it will continue at the higher amount over at least the next several years." Is this Fed money or state? Is 708 Grant money applied for like AFG or SAFER? What happens to this plan if the 708 money shrinks or disappears? It also appears part of the plan is to consolidate the grants departments? Does that make for more efficient grant application, or loss of talent?

I believe the 708 funds are allocated to the counties in NYS with nuclear power plants for the special planning required there. They are not competitive grants.

[EJS1810 7]

Having read the proposal, I have to agree with some that it seems more like a takeover then a merger. I see nothing showing what DPS positions would be lost thru attrition after the merger because DES employees are doing the same function. Having worked in a police controlled dispatch center, I have to say that if the two communications centers were to merge into 1 and they become both fire and police then the fire side will suffer. The main concern of the police dispatcher are his/her officer in the street. You can't tell an officer requesting something to standby while you acknowledge a fire communication.

That said, there are combined centers where it does work but they are combined but seperate. Glouchester County NJ is such a center. They have taken over all county agencies including local police(brought in gradually with local dispatchers being absorbed into the county system). However they are in two rooms, Fire & Police, so each dispatcher still only does 1 function.

Back to Westchester, are DES and DPS employees in the same union? If not, how will this be resolved?

Good Luck

[hudson144 150]

Good points Chief Hac- fire service leaders need to be on top of what might happen here, the fire training Center took years to build, from dispatching to training what if any cuts may effect the FTC? The staff too include the guys who maintain the place. I read the proposal and I hope that the Fire Service does not come up short on this. I'm not really positive that the FD will benefit. If positions are lost at the FTC then we are dealing with situations not much different than some local Fire Depts that have recently demoted,laid off etc! We will see.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I believe the 708 funds are allocated to the counties in NYS with nuclear power plants for the special planning required there. They are not competitive grants.

I wonder if the 40% or $330,000 increase (from 2009 to 2010) in these funds can be used as the county sees fit or does the state &/or NRC have deliverables that are required, which will cost the county to produce?

Edited August 21, 2010 by Bnechis

[Bnechis 3,961]

Having read the proposal, I have to agree with some that it seems more like a takeover then a merger. I see nothing showing what DPS positions would be lost thru attrition after the merger because DES employees are doing the same function.

Agreed, its amazing that all the duplication is in the agency that is 1/3 the size of the other.

Having worked in a police controlled dispatch center, I have to say that if the two communications centers were to merge into 1 and they become both fire and police then the fire side will suffer. The main concern of the police dispatcher are his/her officer in the street. You can't tell an officer requesting something to standby while you acknowledge a fire communication.

To make this worst, the police officers work for the same agency as the dispatchers and will see them almost daily, the loyalties will be much greater there than for those outside fire & EMS agencies that we do not work for.

In the eary 1990's we switched from dispatchers in the police communication room to 60 Control. Some of the dispatchers were "fire" but they often got pulled from our dispatch to run plates and do other police related work, because that was more important. While fiancial issues pushed us towards 60 Control, the final eason was do to the priorities of dispatch.

I have worked for multiple EMS agencies that had police radio's and were dispatched by "the desk" and experienced multiple examples in a number of different communities where we were told to standby after declaring an emergency, because runing the plate or dispatching a noise complaint was a priority. Incidents that stick out include; trying to advise that the hotline alert for the bank robbers was in the car ahead of us, an apt fire with people trapped and an EMS call with guns being drawn.

While this might improve things, it is much more likely they will get much worst. Maybe thats how the county will save money, we will all get out of 60 Control

[WAS967 97]

Both Putnam and Dutchess (and I'm sure other counties) have combined dispatch centers. They seem to do pretty well. As with everything, there will of course be growning pains, but IMHO, it's a step in the right direction. Now if only we could centralize the PSAPs and have every emergency unit in the county dispatched from the same center like in Dutchess (well, almost).